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    Giving up on the Protege

    So, I have been racing the Protege since it was 4 months old (14.5 years now), and I'm thinking I should retire it. I've already replaced one blown front strut this year, and need to replace two more (one of the replacements is now dead), and even then, it's only fast regionally (mid-pack Nationally).

    My problem is that I made the mistake of driving a well set-up Civic ('89 Si) at the Nationals warm-up event, and I was over 2 seconds quicker on my second lap in the car (61.9 in the Protege, 59.5 in the Civic). For comparison, that Civic time is quicker (on the same course as last year's North course) as the winning time last year, and only 0.3 or so off the car that placed 2nd Nationally this year (by 0.006 sec) ran on the same course this year. My wife drove this same car to her first National Championship (in STXL).

    So, I am faced with the prospect of dumping money into the Protege, and not having it be much faster than it is already, or putting the money into a proven car.

    I'd probably still run the Protege once in a while, and it's going to continue to be my wife's daily driver for the foreseeable future (assuming I fix the turn-signal thing), but I hate abandoning it (although not as much as I hate being less than competitive).

    I will miss some things about it. Like having some snobby Corvette driver make a snide comment about the car and then kicking his butt on time. With one blown shock. :D
    David Avard
    '90 Protege LX (STS-prepped)
    '89 Civic Si (STS-prepped)
    '02 Altima SE (14.164 @ 97.7mph stock)

    #2
    I should mention how the car does regionally. I have won my class in 15 out of the 18 events (and I should have won the 16th) I've run in it this year, including 3 Midwest Divisionals. But a Civic would be much faster.
    David Avard
    '90 Protege LX (STS-prepped)
    '89 Civic Si (STS-prepped)
    '02 Altima SE (14.164 @ 97.7mph stock)

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      #3
      Do you have pics? Or videos?

      Comment


        #4
        David, I have to agree with you on the Civic thing. After driving Ryan's at the DC tour and Heyward's at the SC Divisional, I really doubt a Protege will ever run up top.

        However, there are rumors that a certain current GS National Champ is thinking about moving his car into STS. I personally think that the Civic in a year or two may be dethroned.

        too bad we don't have infinite money... I still think the protege might be one heck of a FSP car.
        "Never run out of real estate, traction & ideas at the same time"
        -93 MR2, 129 ES
        ClubProtege.com Tech Articles

        Originally posted by WTF
        Remember low compression makes more space for AIR, HEEELLOOOO!

        Comment


          #5
          2006 Mazda 3 hatchback manual

          Comment


            #6
            I'm still very religous about building my 3rd gen protege into an awesome track car. there are faster cars out there but gotta have the love for the protege. My roommate has his 93 civic coupe LS turbo and he stomps me all the time but he tells me that the pro would take his car in the corners.

            anyways yeah the civic would be better becuase of the aftermarket support and Honda does make some awesome motors!
            sigpic
            1987 Rx7 TurboII (Stripped and Crush R.I.P )
            1987 Rx7 Sport (Street port Rebuild almost done.)
            2006 Infiniti G35 Coupe w/ sports package

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by JesseSays
              David, I have to agree with you on the Civic thing. After driving Ryan's at the DC tour and Heyward's at the SC Divisional, I really doubt a Protege will ever run up top.

              However, there are rumors that a certain current GS National Champ is thinking about moving his car into STS. I personally think that the Civic in a year or two may be dethroned.

              too bad we don't have infinite money... I still think the protege might be one heck of a FSP car.
              If I could find a good Celica without a sunroof, I'd be tempted.

              I drove a friend's GTS with minimal mods, and after a little tweaking, that made him a second faster on a 50 second course, I beat his time by 1.3 seconds, and I was too tight inside the car to drive it fully to its limits everywhere on course. Given a lower seat and no sunroof, I'm sure that there was another second or so.

              But I really don't want to buy a new car to do that with (turn it into an STS car). That and 4-5 years of payments while Julie is in school.
              David Avard
              '90 Protege LX (STS-prepped)
              '89 Civic Si (STS-prepped)
              '02 Altima SE (14.164 @ 97.7mph stock)

              Comment


                #8
                Understandable...

                you could always get a MR2, they're cheap
                "Never run out of real estate, traction & ideas at the same time"
                -93 MR2, 129 ES
                ClubProtege.com Tech Articles

                Originally posted by WTF
                Remember low compression makes more space for AIR, HEEELLOOOO!

                Comment


                  #9
                  OMG!! My mentor is having second thoughts, how can this be...somebody hold me

                  Ok, next time i get a chance i'm going to drive Curt's or Ken's Civic's and see what all the hubub is about James W. has won class a few times in Curt's, so i know it's fast. and Ken, well you know Ken is fast standing still.

                  I agree the Protege is slow compared to the Civic and way under powered compared to other STS cars. In Art's SER i am consistantly 2 secs faster. I even beat him in his own car at the SCNAX cup, but he also beat me in mine, but my gap was larger, 10ths to 1000ths.

                  I haven't given up yet. I am never going to be nationally competitive anyway (i haven't even made it to a nats yet) but locally i have been slipping, due to faster cars. Where i was placing 4th to 8th, i am now in the 8th to 12th range. but still pretty consistant with top 10s. I plan to finish the season in STS and probably run SM next year, drop the KL V6 in it with an LSD and call it good. I just wanna have fun.

                  If it means keeping you in the Protege, i have a set of ZX2 struts with your name on them if ya want. (Not for sale otherwise, no PMs please) hehehe, you can also have the H&Rs back to match them :rofl: :rofl:

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by JesseSays
                    Understandable...

                    you could always get a MR2, they're cheap
                    Now they are.

                    I'm thinking about getting some Koni inserts for the front Mazdaspeeds (which are now blown). Should help the car. Of course, I only have 3 more races this season, only two of which I'm sure that I'm going to, and then it will be back to winter settings for the Protege (stock springs, all-seasons). The Civic I planned to buy (Terranova's) got sold to someone else, so I'm still in the market.

                    Thanks for the offer for the struts, Darryl, but I imagine they'd be expensive to ship.

                    It will be interesting to see how quick Will will be on his mega-dollar set-up.
                    David Avard
                    '90 Protege LX (STS-prepped)
                    '89 Civic Si (STS-prepped)
                    '02 Altima SE (14.164 @ 97.7mph stock)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      well, offer still stands if ya need em in a pinch situation.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Davard
                        Now they are.

                        yeah yeah yeah... laugh all you want...
                        "Never run out of real estate, traction & ideas at the same time"
                        -93 MR2, 129 ES
                        ClubProtege.com Tech Articles

                        Originally posted by WTF
                        Remember low compression makes more space for AIR, HEEELLOOOO!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I had been wondering about David and just came across this thread....

                          A few questions out of curiousity:

                          Why is the Civic that much better? Power to weight (and good chassis)? In other words, I take it that the Protege is plenty good 'chassis-wise' but is mainly lacking in power.... ??

                          What is the 'mega-dollar' setup David referred to that Will is doing?

                          How about a 1.8 DOHC swapped 323 in STS - or does STS not allow engine swaps?
                          Original owner: 1991 Protege LX (now w/SOHC) and a few more BG's ....

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by naprotejay
                            I had been wondering about David and just came across this thread....

                            A few questions out of curiousity:

                            Why is the Civic that much better? Power to weight (and good chassis)? In other words, I take it that the Protege is plenty good 'chassis-wise' but is mainly lacking in power.... ??

                            What is the 'mega-dollar' setup David referred to that Will is doing?

                            How about a 1.8 DOHC swapped 323 in STS - or does STS not allow engine swaps?
                            Sorry, I hadn't seen this before, but:

                            Last question first: You can't even swap the DOHC into a SOHC car. STS is pretty limited in what mods you can do.

                            Will's mega-dollar setup is Ground Control Advance Design Shock/Struts. The shocks are $400 each, and then it's another $$$ to convert them to strut use.

                            The biggest disadvantage is tires. We all use pretty much the same tire in STS: a 205/50-15 Azenis. Especially since thse tires can overheat easily, often 3/4th of the way through a long course on a heavier car, having a lighter car is a benefit. Most of the Civics are under 2100lbs (the best are around 2030lbs), while it would be hard to get a Protege under 2400lbs.

                            Power is similar, with the Protege having a mild torque advantage, at least stock. The Civic really wakes up with STS mods. 110-115 WHP is the figure most often seen (pretty good for 108 crank stock). Limited by the VAF, I doubt a Protege would make much more than that. STS Civics commonly run low 15's.

                            Then there is the chassis and suspension design. Protege is struts all around, while the Civic is control arms. Where this is a big advantage is that during cornering, when the body rolls and loads the outside suspension, the Civic gains negative camber, while a strut-equipped car doesn't.

                            No one tried a Protege (or other heavy car on 15's) on the Kumho MX (which needs to be hot to work), so if the new Azenis (RT-615) has similar temp needs, the heavier cars might make up some of their disadvantage.

                            It should be noted that in the right conditions, the Protege/Escort can do well. At the last Cal Club event of 2004, it was raining. Will beat STS (running in PAX class) by over 2 seconds. And that was with an engine going away (crank-snout failure), so he was down on power below 4000-4500rpm.

                            Oh, by the way, I did wind up buying a set-up Civic. Has to be the ugliest non-body kitted (and straight body) car around. The previous owner didn't feel like trying to deal with the dead red paint, so he painted it with Rustoleum "Chalkboard" paint. It does have a kind of "stealth fighter" look to it, but it'll never make a magazine looking like this.

                            If I had it to do over, I probably would have looked around more for a "stock" Civic and modded it myself.
                            David Avard
                            '90 Protege LX (STS-prepped)
                            '89 Civic Si (STS-prepped)
                            '02 Altima SE (14.164 @ 97.7mph stock)

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