Emanage Ultimate on a BP?

[idealsociety]

ive asked around on the scort forums and havent found much, but does anyone have advice on using an emanage ultimate on the EGT ecu and BP? ive got a 95 block, 91 ECU swapped into my festiva and it runs N/A but im trying to finish my turbo build but need to get this emanage working!

anyone have any advice?

[matt_fulghum]

I've never used the Emanage Ultimate but I personally kinda frown on piggybacks that fake airflow signals to the stock ECU to adjust how much fuel is being injected. It seems like a bit of a hack.

If you already have the system as it looks like you do, do you have the wiring diagrams and manuals and everything you need to set it up? Generally systems like this start off by not screwing with anything (which makes initial tuning much easier) and you can adjust from there. Not knowing enough about how it actually goes about doing things, I don't know how I could help you.

www.miataturbo.net has a section for E-managed miatas, so you might wanna take a look over there. They might be able to help you out with setting everything up.

If you need help figuring out how to wire it in however, I'd be glad to help.

[prakashkamath]

intruder has an emanage ultimate running on his bp motor in his 97 protege. here is the thread:

http://imazda.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303&highlight=emanage+ultimate

[b-potent]

e-manage will work just fine on a bp. Although it is a piggyback, when i had it on my car i could make my afr's go from 18afr to 10afr with no problems on 550's, so it definitely gets the job done. Just make sure you hook everything up right, good luck. Peace

[matt_fulghum]

why would you ever, ever want 10:1 AFR?

edit: I guess (and hope) you're just saying that you can get that kind of range.

[FE3-323]

matt he was stating the broad range more so then what he chose to run.

[matt_fulghum]

yeah.

Anyway, one trouble with airflow meter emulators is that they don't take into account air charging, which is responsible for those nasty lean spikes when you get on the gas and the rich spikes when you get off of it.

There's no real way to emulate that effect either, in any crossplatform, consistent way at least. Especially since every engine's airflow is different.

[Lex]

a lot of on and off throttle changes are taken care of by enrichment or enleanment based on the TPS rate of change.

[therieldeal]

depending on the ECU you have, that may or may not be true... the NA 5 speed ecu certainly doesnt control enrichment with the TPS

[Skuce]

What about something like a MAP-ECU that deletes the VAF entirely. Wouldn't that be able to get rid of the majority of the spikes (with it being a piggy back) since it's measuring the actual air density off the MAP?

[matt_fulghum]

No, the VAF can actually handle the cause of the lean/rich spikes, which is that when you open the throttle or close it rapidly (or when the turbo starts to spool up quickly or suddenly the boost is releast) you get a surge or a quick dip in the air flow (but NOT the MAP) which causes the lean/rich spikes.

The VAF can actually physically handle this, while MAP based systems (like the Megasquirt and others) have to deal with it in software as best they can (and it's up to the tuner to make sure that it's handling it properly).

A good visual example of what I'm talking about is here:


You'll notice that once the throttle stops moving, the airflow peaks and then settles down. This happens so quickly that the MAP (which is heavily damped in all but the tiniest of engines with ITBs, pretty much) will not show a reaction. BUT A VAF WILL.

Really, this is the only reason why I can think of a VAF/MAF being better than MAP based systems.

As far as how the stock ECU deals with enrichment? I think it just uses the delta of the airflow to calculate it. That's the only available system that would make sense, as obviously it's not based off the TPS (which is an on off switch in the manual engines) or MAP (as there is no MAP sensor on our ECU [although I think there's a barometric sensor somewhere?])

[therieldeal]

air charging is annoying

x tau ftw!

[matt_fulghum]

annoying yes but the effect goes away generally by about 3000-3500 rpm, so it's not a big deal, except at low rpm.

tangent: the icon for "" is really hideous and NEEDS to be changed.

[Lex]

the stock ECU has a barometric sensor on the circuit board itself. Hondas seem to have the MAP system running very well since they run MAP OEM.

And yes, MAF sensors are superior in detecting airflow changes in a motor and this is why they are used on most new cars ... actually I have heard that a lot of the newest cars employ both MAF and MAP sensors.

[matt_fulghum]

the Honda ECUs have pretty damn sophisticated firmware and hours and hours of tuning time on them, so the fact that they run MAP only is not a problem. MAP sensors themselves are not "bad", they just take a bit more effort to use with engines. On the plus side, they're pretty quick to react to subtle changes in manifold pressure (while VAFs and MAFs are more suited towards larger changes) and they cause no restriction whatsoever in the intake path.

There are good reasons to use each system and drawbacks for all of them as well. Any way you go though, you're okay, so long as the ECU's code is properly done.