Widebands

[93 Pro]

Ive been searching for a wideband for the past little while and stumbled upon this one http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zt2/zt2.htm. Does anyone have any experience with this wideband or know anything about it or have any suggestions of what route I should go. I would like to be able to log with what ever wideband I end up getting.

[smoke187]

get a lc-1 or aem

[93 Pro]

What would I be able to log without getting the LM-1 logger and with just a laptop? What about Autometer widebands how do they compare?

[smoke187]

you can data log with both not sure how yet as i dont own one yet

[matt_fulghum]

with the LC-1, you can log by plugging your laptop into the output of the LC-1 and running the Innovate Motorsports logging program. It's a very well put together program, and the LC-1's inexpensive, so you really can't go wrong.

[deadly_sleeper]

The innovative is a good wideband to go with. I know lots of people are running these on their turbo cars and love them. You can data log with them. You can grab these out of stock turbo VW and Saab's I believe and other stock turbo cars if you look around if you are trying to keep it cheap.

[FE3-323]

the zeitronix i've installed before.... if you like having a relatively huge display & a bunch of useless features that should be noted in a laptop showing instead of on the silly screen then its ok. else wise, the newage compact units really do the job pretty well. AEM & LC1 units use bosch sensors.... i don't remember what the otherone uses

[Studweiser]

Took it on a local DSM board..



Results - At a Glance
Listed below, from A to Z, are the eight meters we tested. All use the Bosch LSU4 wideband oxygen sensor. There was a surprising amount of variation between the various units, in terms of both accuracy and response time. We also rated the ease of use, display, and included software. The participants were AEM, Dynojet, FAST, FJO, Innovate, NGK, PLX, and Zeitronix.




AEM
The AEM unit was accurate during our tests, but with no real data logging capability, of limited usefulness for actual tuning. It was average for response time.

AFX (NGK)
The NGK unit exhibited low scores for accuracy, and it was missing the required wire for analog output. It does not have data logging capabilities. Considering NGK makes their own wideband sensors, it is a surprise this unit ships with a Bosch sensor.

Dynojet
The Dynojet unit was hard to set up, and the included logging software was very limited. The Dynojet exhibited the slowest response time tested.

FAST
The FAST unit had internal datalogging, but no logging analysis software. This made it less useful for real tuning. Setting up the analog outputs was somewhat difficult. Display is nice and intuitive.

FJO
The FJO unit had tricky wiring for the sensor, the controller, and the analog outputs. It was also difficult to setup the analog outputs with the included configuration software. The included logging software was counterintuitive.

Innovate
The Innovate unit was accurate, exhibited the fastest response time, and included very good analysis software. Innovate claims to be the only truly digital unit, and the high accuracy and low latency seem to support their claims. Setup and wiring was complex and somewhat confusing.

PLX
The PLX M300 does not include logging software, and exhibited accuracy at +/1 AFR (the worst tested).

Zeitronix
The Zeitronix exhibited accuracy of +/- .54 AFR, and gradual lean drift under some conditions. The included logging software was relatively difficult and lacked features.



The only regret we have is that we couldn't effectively simulate long-term sensor "aging." Aging is mostly due to oxidation of the sensors internals and fouling of its ceramic elements. Operating conditions and fuel type are big factors in the aging process. Exposure to lead in race gas, metallic elements in octane booster additives, oil or carbon fouling and really high operating temperatures contribute to rapid aging, and a resulting loss of sensor accurancy. Because of aging it is important to have an air fuel ratio meter that can be calibrated. The common type of calibration is called a free air calibration. This is when the meter compares the output of the sensor to what it should be when exposed to a know oxygen content gas, air. If an air fuel ratio meter is lacking the ability to calibrate, the sensor should be replace at regular intervals. The trouble is when should the sensor be replaced? It takes some experience to know when this is appropriate.

We did try to emulate this idea using a variety of old and damaged sensors we had laying around. With one of these sensors, the Innovate XD-16 would show an error code indicating that the sensor was bad. However, when we connected the same damaged sensor to any of the analog gauges they read as much as 3 AFR off. Again, the obvious question is: If your gauge can't tell you when a sensor is bad, how could you ever trust it?

Optimizing Wideband Sensor Usage
Other things to keep in mind to ensure proper sensor function and longevity are exhaust back pressure, rich mixtures, and under/over heating.

A high exhaust backpressure forces more exhaust into the sensors pump cell which can cause an air fuel ratio meter to read richer than what the engines really running. Turbo engines run a relatively high amount of backpressure in the exhaust manifold before the turbine, making them a poor place to locate the sensor.

Missfires due to a malfunctioning or underpowered ignition or an extremely rich mixture can cause false lean readings because unburned liquid fuel in droplets block the small hole leading to the sensors pump cell.

A wideband sensor should not be placed in the exhaust stream and left unheated. The hole to the pump cell can quickly become clogged and contaminated by exhaust byproducts, especially during a start cycle from a cold engine. The sensor can also be damaged by exposing it to temperatures above 700 degrees C, like those typically before the turbine in turbo engines. You never want to place a sensor there anyway due to the aforementioned issues with sensor accuracy and backpressure. Lastly you don't want to place the sensor so far away from the engine that its 10 watt internal heater cannot keep the sensor hot enough

[FE3-323]

^ AWESOME FIND!!!! note the XD-16 is the top line AFAIK of innovative. seems like it really does the deed.

[Lex]

I have an AEM and I've been happy with it over 1-2 years.

[FE3-323]

aem isn't bad as you can see. cheaper these days then the base level LC1's

[93 Pro]

Im a noob, what can be logged with the LC-1 with a laptop? Just your AF ratio from a starting point to an ending point?

[bmikedaman]

Air to fuel ratio is the ONLY thing you can log with an LC-1, it'd be ok for use say at a drag strip/dyno on an NA car, but probably not a great idea for a boosted car since you need much finer resolution and adjustment. If you want more you're looking at an LM-1 or better or another product entirely. We used an LC-1 as an input for an ACCEL DFI system and it performed pretty well. I use the PLX M300(? bosch sensor with display, whatever one that is) in my rx7 interfaced to my PowerFC/Datalogit. I'm pleased with it but you'd need one of the newer SAFC looking gauges they make to get logging etc.

[cire626]

i have the lm-1 and it works perfect but the only complaint that i have is the need for the aux box or rpm cable to monitor other functions.

[therieldeal]

i have the LC-1 and it seems to work great. i dont have a gauge for it, it's just connected directly to my megasquirt. in this way, i can datalog the wideband reading along with all the other megasquirt parameters (using megatune) and i can compare RPM, boost level, etc along with AFR.

if i wanted to buy a gauge i could hook that up too, as it has two outputs