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    Tranny go boom

    So, I finally took out the tranny that grenaded while accelerating in 4th at ~15psi. Haven't torn it apart yet to see the insides, but already know that the weak bellhousing side is to blame.

    Keep in mind, that this tranny has a Quaife LSD, the 5th gear "plate mod", and all the outer bearing races were tacked to keep them from spinning.



    More pics of the internals when I have time to take it apart.

    --Ferdi
    Last edited by ftjandra; 01-05-2009, 09:25 PM.
    If you can't differentiate between brake and break, you should go back to school
    -----
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    #2
    wow is that inside where the flywheel and clutch sit

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      #3
      yes

      ouch, that sucks :/
      Escort GTR -- 11.87 @ 117.6 mph -- 320 HP / 325 Ft. Lbs. @ 23 PSI
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        #4
        Originally posted by smoke187 View Post
        wow is that inside where the flywheel and clutch sit
        Yup, you can just barely make out the input shaft on the top right.

        --Ferdi
        If you can't differentiate between brake and break, you should go back to school
        -----
        Miscellaneous Pics of Turbo Protege Build
        Big Front Brake Install using Wilwood Calipers
        Factory Service Manuals and Familia Brochures - PDF

        Comment


          #5
          Damn, I guess that means a stripped 4th gear.

          What's next for strengthening?

          Comment


            #6
            damn ferdi, that doesn't look to pretty
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            1992- project FE3..... 313 WHP @ 9.3psi




            I pet my dash when I get into the car..."good car"
            he actually has a mazda tree, parts grow on it

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              #7
              Ok, so I took apart the tranny and it's not what I expected. I thought 4th gear would be stripped, but instead it's the drive gear (if that's what it's called...). It does not have a single complete tooth left and also damaged the crown gear. The bearing cage is also a little mangled. At a quick inspection, all the other gears look fine.









              Did the gear let go first and cause the subsequent damage to the case? Or, was the case too weak, messing up the gear mesh? My guess is the latter and so my next step is to figure out a way to strengthen that bellhousing. But, that's much more difficult than the "plate mod" on the opposite side...

              --Ferdi
              Last edited by ftjandra; 01-05-2009, 09:27 PM.
              If you can't differentiate between brake and break, you should go back to school
              -----
              Miscellaneous Pics of Turbo Protege Build
              Big Front Brake Install using Wilwood Calipers
              Factory Service Manuals and Familia Brochures - PDF

              Comment


                #8
                Ferdi thats a freak accident, but what im thinking is the gear mesh was improper with the quaife installation the whole time.... hows the other end of the casing look???

                next time i would seriously consider having it professionally rebuilt. I.E. gears meshed & tested & reshimmed for preload.... if it blows then @ least you'll have some warranty
                ---Has ClubProtege helped you in someway? show your support by Contributing--- Click Here---

                1992- project FE3..... 313 WHP @ 9.3psi




                I pet my dash when I get into the car..."good car"
                he actually has a mazda tree, parts grow on it

                Comment


                  #9
                  I think I'm with Ryan on this one. Since that's the largest gear in the tranny it's likely the mesh was not right from the get-go. Did the tranny make any noises while you were driving it in any of the gears?

                  There's also the scenario that when you make one end of the case much stronger (has a lot less flex) the other end is has a much higher chance of failing.
                  Last edited by Lex; 05-11-2008, 11:45 PM.

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                    #10
                    wow

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by smoke187 View Post
                      wow
                      That's about as much as I could think of saying as well. Good luck with the next 1.
                      1993 Protege LX-Midnight's shadow SOLD
                      1996 Honda CBR600-Wrecked. Damn Honda crippled me
                      2002 mazda MPV-family truckster SOLD
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                      Originally posted by jay
                      .....they totally underestimated the number of gearheads such as myself that have families but refuse to grow the hell up and stop playing with cars, or that otherwise see the utility of having 4 doors. Obviously I ain't alone, as there are a helluva lotta sti and evo here. Bueler? Beuler? Mazda? Mazda?

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                        #12
                        wow dude..

                        even though i think the G series housing are way to thin, i think this may have been a gear mesh issue. with the short time it took to go and the only visible damage being concentrated in that area but without fully checking the races on the diff mount and the res of the tranny its still speculation.
                        "Discontent is the first necessity of progress."
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                        Comment


                          #13
                          The more I think of it, the more I am leaning towards the scenario where the stronger end of the case resulted in too much stress on this end causing the case to crack.

                          I don't think there's a way to adjust how the gears mesh along the horizontal axis.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by bpt323 View Post
                            Ferdi thats a freak accident, but what im thinking is the gear mesh was improper with the quaife installation the whole time.... hows the other end of the casing look???

                            next time i would seriously consider having it professionally rebuilt. I.E. gears meshed & tested & reshimmed for preload.... if it blows then @ least you'll have some warranty
                            Umm, like Alex said, there is no way to adjust the gear mesh along the horizontal axis. You really think they would have warrantied their work with a modded engine like mine, I doubt it. As with everything else, if I didn't think I could do it myself, I wouldn't have.

                            On most other failures I've seen, the 5th gear bearings were pushed straight through the end of the case. But, since I have that steel plate there, that's not gonna happen.

                            Other than that bearing being pushed through the bellhousing about 1mm, there isn't really any radial wear on the bearings/case. Obviously there is a lot of power going through those gears and that 1mm of axial movement would cause enough radial play and vibration in the secondary shaft to cause this.

                            Did I read somewhere that the Kia box has a wider crown gear and corresponding drive gear? Can I swap my outer case (with the "plate mod") onto the Kia bellhousing, or do I need to use the entire Kia case?

                            --Ferdi
                            If you can't differentiate between brake and break, you should go back to school
                            -----
                            Miscellaneous Pics of Turbo Protege Build
                            Big Front Brake Install using Wilwood Calipers
                            Factory Service Manuals and Familia Brochures - PDF

                            Comment


                              #15
                              The Kia tranny does have a wider ring gear - I had them side by side. The internal casting is also slightly different on the lower case since I did not have to grind down anything to have the MSP LSD fit right in. Unfortunately I am not 100% sure you can interchange the casings. That being said I am about 90% sure you can interchange them.

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