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    Grinding 2nd gear = not so good...

    I'll let the pictures do the explaining...









    MORE DISTURBING PICTURES!!!

    So since I've dropped the new engine and LSD tranny in, 2nd gear would always grind during a power shift... now I know there's more than meet the eye. Damage! FCUK!!! That's my drain plug with 3 earth magnets holding all the powdered metal and metal pieces.

    I've also learnt that the gears are just powdered metal with surface hardening... look at the 3rd picture.

    I dunno what I'm gonna do now, since I was hoping to have this thing ready for the strip in April... do I get a tranny to rebuild, or attempt to research the MR2 tranny?
    Last edited by Shades; 01-18-2009, 02:43 AM.

    JoN - Automotive Machinist Journeyman/Refrigeration Mechanic Journeyman
    Member of MX-3.com
    1996 Mazda MX-3 RS - Creek Blue Mica
    1993 Mazda MX-3 GS SE - Raspberry... RIP


    Racing BP (Project "Blue" Marlin)... Twin Scroll GT3071R, breaking 30psi at the moment!

    "Do it ONCE, do it RIGHT!"

    #2
    Sorry to hear but that drain plug looks like some kind of art.
    I inspected 5th gear when i rebuilded my sohc 4wd tranny.
    Hardness was around 60hrc and the base material was forged.
    To compare,knives and files are around 60-65.

    Comment


      #3
      that looks like a chunk of the shifter collar not the actual gear.. which would make sense for it to cause a grinding issue.
      "Discontent is the first necessity of progress."
      -Thomas A. Edison

      "There is a fine line between ballin' on a budget, and dreamin' on an empty wallet."


      *Junked* 92 mx3, BP swap- milage whore, beaten up and down the east coast
      *Junked* KLZE powered 323 on Megasquirt 1
      172.60HP & 156.93 TQ with only headers and short ram intake. back under the knife for a BPT swap.
      New Daily stock 1.6L 1999 Mazda Protege LX

      Comment


        #4
        ouch!!!!!
        Check out the Pics
        sigpic
        http://www.wihandyman.com/forum/vbpi...?do=view&g=228
        Mazda's Rule Honda's Drool

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Tuomas View Post
          Sorry to hear but that drain plug looks like some kind of art.
          I inspected 5th gear when i rebuilded my sohc 4wd tranny.
          Hardness was around 60hrc and the base material was forged.
          To compare,knives and files are around 60-65.
          Nice... yeah, the back side of that tooth you can definately tell it was only hardened on the outside, and definately looks powdered metal on the inside. Kinda like our oil pump gears.

          Originally posted by MD323 View Post
          that looks like a chunk of the shifter collar not the actual gear.. which would make sense for it to cause a grinding issue.
          If I remember correctly the shift collar was aluminum... or are you talking about the last picture? Cause the 2nd picture is definately a tooth.
          Last edited by Shades; 01-18-2009, 11:43 AM.

          JoN - Automotive Machinist Journeyman/Refrigeration Mechanic Journeyman
          Member of MX-3.com
          1996 Mazda MX-3 RS - Creek Blue Mica
          1993 Mazda MX-3 GS SE - Raspberry... RIP


          Racing BP (Project "Blue" Marlin)... Twin Scroll GT3071R, breaking 30psi at the moment!

          "Do it ONCE, do it RIGHT!"

          Comment


            #6
            hhmm I know the collars that are actually moved by the shift forks are aluminum, but im reffering to the other half of the collar that is on the shaft. I honestly dont know what they are called but if i remember they are steel (or as you have proved coated)

            but its been awhile, guess we will figure it out when you pull it apart.

            O/T: do you still do machine work? something like trans drain plugs with a much stronger magnet and a new run of shifter bushings keep coming to mind. or atleast a source for the "nyoil" stuffs
            "Discontent is the first necessity of progress."
            -Thomas A. Edison

            "There is a fine line between ballin' on a budget, and dreamin' on an empty wallet."


            *Junked* 92 mx3, BP swap- milage whore, beaten up and down the east coast
            *Junked* KLZE powered 323 on Megasquirt 1
            172.60HP & 156.93 TQ with only headers and short ram intake. back under the knife for a BPT swap.
            New Daily stock 1.6L 1999 Mazda Protege LX

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by MD323 View Post
              hhmm I know the collars that are actually moved by the shift forks are aluminum, but im reffering to the other half of the collar that is on the shaft. I honestly dont know what they are called but if i remember they are steel (or as you have proved coated)

              but its been awhile, guess we will figure it out when you pull it apart.

              O/T: do you still do machine work? something like trans drain plugs with a much stronger magnet and a new run of shifter bushings keep coming to mind. or atleast a source for the "nyoil" stuffs
              Yeah I know what you're talking about... damn cheapo's with their powdered metal.

              O/T: I don't do machining anymore... sadly. But If I can recommend what I did for mine was go get some Rare Earth Magnets, I have three and stuck them to the bottom of the drain plug which is metal. I have to use a screw driver to get them off the drain plug that's how magnetic they are. There use to be a company that made Nyoil bushings for the MX3, I think they went out of business.

              JoN - Automotive Machinist Journeyman/Refrigeration Mechanic Journeyman
              Member of MX-3.com
              1996 Mazda MX-3 RS - Creek Blue Mica
              1993 Mazda MX-3 GS SE - Raspberry... RIP


              Racing BP (Project "Blue" Marlin)... Twin Scroll GT3071R, breaking 30psi at the moment!

              "Do it ONCE, do it RIGHT!"

              Comment


                #8
                O/T: I thought about drilling and inserting some rare earth magnets, I have some from a few old HDD's but its a task when you have 3 cars to do
                "Discontent is the first necessity of progress."
                -Thomas A. Edison

                "There is a fine line between ballin' on a budget, and dreamin' on an empty wallet."


                *Junked* 92 mx3, BP swap- milage whore, beaten up and down the east coast
                *Junked* KLZE powered 323 on Megasquirt 1
                172.60HP & 156.93 TQ with only headers and short ram intake. back under the knife for a BPT swap.
                New Daily stock 1.6L 1999 Mazda Protege LX

                Comment


                  #9
                  Why insert when the plug is magnetic and just stick them on the outside like I did... as you can see it attacts alot of crap. That metal furry thing sticking off the plug in the first picture is about 2" long.

                  JoN - Automotive Machinist Journeyman/Refrigeration Mechanic Journeyman
                  Member of MX-3.com
                  1996 Mazda MX-3 RS - Creek Blue Mica
                  1993 Mazda MX-3 GS SE - Raspberry... RIP


                  Racing BP (Project "Blue" Marlin)... Twin Scroll GT3071R, breaking 30psi at the moment!

                  "Do it ONCE, do it RIGHT!"

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Damn that's really ****ty to see. Damn Mazda for making an awesome motor and mating it with a weaksause tranni
                    1993 Protege LX-Midnight's shadow SOLD
                    1996 Honda CBR600-Wrecked. Damn Honda crippled me
                    2002 mazda MPV-family truckster SOLD
                    2010 VW routon

                    Originally posted by jay
                    .....they totally underestimated the number of gearheads such as myself that have families but refuse to grow the hell up and stop playing with cars, or that otherwise see the utility of having 4 doors. Obviously I ain't alone, as there are a helluva lotta sti and evo here. Bueler? Beuler? Mazda? Mazda?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      hmmm

                      theres also that big ass magnetic ring around the drain plug... you could have a lot more bits and pieces still inside the tranny.

                      how many pieces are actually there? it looks like several different ones...

                      i'm not home right now so i cant check for you, but i don't remember 2nd gear having 2 notches on it like that. i only remember that being on the ring gear.

                      what transmission is this exactly, like from what make/model/year? measure the gap from the edge to the first notch, and the distance between the notches... i'll measure and compare, should be able to figure out what gear it came from that way.

                      by dropping in that lsd you mixed and matched ring gear/pinion which can occasionally result in bad news...
                      Escort GTR -- 11.87 @ 117.6 mph -- 320 HP / 325 Ft. Lbs. @ 23 PSI
                      ... The first FWD BG with a Toyota E153 transmission conversion in the USA!
                      Looking for BP x Toyota E153 adapter plates? PM me or contact me on Facebook: Riel Performance Parts

                      Comment


                        #12
                        check out the pics below

                        i couldnt find a shot anywhere of 2nd gear on the primary shaft, but you can see the notches i'm talking about on the ring gear. to me, they look like the notches on your broken tooth....

                        (photos borrowed from imazda tranny rebuild thing)
                        Attached Files
                        Escort GTR -- 11.87 @ 117.6 mph -- 320 HP / 325 Ft. Lbs. @ 23 PSI
                        ... The first FWD BG with a Toyota E153 transmission conversion in the USA!
                        Looking for BP x Toyota E153 adapter plates? PM me or contact me on Facebook: Riel Performance Parts

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by therieldeal View Post
                          hmmm

                          theres also that big ass magnetic ring around the drain plug... you could have a lot more bits and pieces still inside the tranny.

                          how many pieces are actually there? it looks like several different ones...

                          i'm not home right now so i cant check for you, but i don't remember 2nd gear having 2 notches on it like that. i only remember that being on the ring gear.

                          what transmission is this exactly, like from what make/model/year? measure the gap from the edge to the first notch, and the distance between the notches... i'll measure and compare, should be able to figure out what gear it came from that way.

                          by dropping in that lsd you mixed and matched ring gear/pinion which can occasionally result in bad news...
                          There are just two pieces... the 2nd and 3rd pictures are of that tooth... and the 4th picture are of a misc piece.

                          I checked the ring gears when I took out the differential that was in there and there was the same number of teeth and spacing. I believe that the ring gear was slightly wider but there was no clearance issues. This tranny was from a 93 EGT.

                          Looking at those pictures it looks like the bottom of that ring gear in the last picture... SH!T, there goes a $400 LSD. I might be bugging you for info on that MR2 tranny...

                          Oh crap... so you're saying that it could be my LSD or 1st gear. FCUK... I'm gonna go outside and break something now.
                          Last edited by Shades; 01-18-2009, 04:27 PM.

                          JoN - Automotive Machinist Journeyman/Refrigeration Mechanic Journeyman
                          Member of MX-3.com
                          1996 Mazda MX-3 RS - Creek Blue Mica
                          1993 Mazda MX-3 GS SE - Raspberry... RIP


                          Racing BP (Project "Blue" Marlin)... Twin Scroll GT3071R, breaking 30psi at the moment!

                          "Do it ONCE, do it RIGHT!"

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Looking through my disassembly pics, I think it's part of the secondary third gear.



                            --Ferdi

                            Edit. I should have whatever parts you need to fix it, if you are going to go that route.
                            Last edited by ftjandra; 01-18-2009, 04:44 PM.
                            If you can't differentiate between brake and break, you should go back to school
                            -----
                            Miscellaneous Pics of Turbo Protege Build
                            Big Front Brake Install using Wilwood Calipers
                            Factory Service Manuals and Familia Brochures - PDF

                            Comment


                              #15
                              so it looks like it could be the ring gear or 3rd gear as ferdi said. it cant be first gear... as i pointed out 1st only has one notch, your broken tooth has 2 notches.

                              its not an issue of tooth count or gear ratio for the ring gear... if either of those were wong you wouldnt have been able to assemble it at all. as they wear gears take a set to one another. swapping in a different ring gear (even a brand new one) can cause issues. kind of like putting used rings from one motor in another used motor without machining anything.

                              if it ends up being third... i actually have 3rd and 4th gear sets that ferdi sold me a while ago as spares. i dont need them anymore, i'll sell them to you for whatever i bought them for. it was like 20 plus shipping or something, maybe ferdi remembers?
                              Escort GTR -- 11.87 @ 117.6 mph -- 320 HP / 325 Ft. Lbs. @ 23 PSI
                              ... The first FWD BG with a Toyota E153 transmission conversion in the USA!
                              Looking for BP x Toyota E153 adapter plates? PM me or contact me on Facebook: Riel Performance Parts

                              Comment

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