Need Serious EMS Advice for GTR build

[vtec-this]

hey there

i have a 2003 mazdaspeed protege (bought new) and recently purchased a gtr motor. I sold the head and cams and kept the bottom end and oil cooler. I then bought a 2nd gen miata head which is now on the way here from the states.

Right now I dont know if the head is vvt or a 99-00, but when my friend brings it over the boarder in a few weeks I can take a look for myself.

I purchased a toyota transmission adaptor plate from everyones favorite board member with zinc coating and a fwd toyota camry v6 transmission (same trans as mr2 turbo, just setup for fwd) and will be running this new much stronger trans with a TRD LSD.

I am planning on welding a mock up front end assembly in my garage and hooking up an engine dyno directly to the fwd wheel assemblies (there is a company that rents these locally by the day, not hour!) and would like to tune the engine before even mounting it in the vehicle. Looking to tune the car n/a first then add the turbo system as things progress on the dyno

I am unsure at this point of what way to go on engine management. There are several routes I can take that all seem to have pro / cons.

First off, I need a setup that can preferably support the following:

1. Preferably accepts TPS signal from a GSXR 750cc pre 99.
2. Has the ability to handle 650cc or larger injectors, or 2 set of injectors
3. Runs off MAP signals and has sequential injection, not batch fire
4. Might need it to operate VVT, if so would need smooth engagement, no on/off bs
5. Was hoping to run coil on plug ignition of some type, not sure what components I may have to purchase to get it setup with a new ems
6. Might need it to handle alternator and A/C operation, I think I am going to have to use a 1.8l fwd bp alternator unless i find a way to nicely mount the FSDE alternator and not sure how to properly control this as I have a FSDET wiring harness and alternator in the car currently? (Should I just use stock mazdaspeed harness and ecu in place to handle alternator and a/c operation? would that even work since as far as it knows the engine isnt even running)
7. Would like to use a J and S ignition system with seqential ignition, not batch fire so it will retard on an individual basis and not 2 at a time
8. I currently have an individual port methenol injection system from previous setup I would like to incorporate in some way either with ems
9. Preferably can control operation of my pump for my water/air intercooler system in some way.
10. My stock speedo is driven by ABS sensors to determine speed so it will work fine even if the ecu doesnt know the motor is running, but I would also need the stock tach to operate properly so that might be a headache.
I also have a blitz boost controller I will be reusing so I dont need the EMS for that.
11. Can work with my stock mazdaspeed fuel pump and a walbro 255 in the near future.

I am also not sure which sensors I will need from each BP motor yet either. I have the stock gtr pulley and knock sensor, but not much else.

It seems there are 100 different routes I could go. Use a EscortGT or protege 1.8l ecu, then run a MS from Lex or if i go with the miata ecu/harness I could go link or hydra, or something else that plugs directly to the harness, or I could look into getting something like a haltec or microtech, or a aem universal etc.


Any ideas or suggestions on how to complete an ems setup for the project from people with experience tuning a project of this kind would be greatly appreciated. I am looking to have a setup that with proper tuning could support 400whp on sunoco 94 octane ethenol enhanced pump gas and be run as a DD once everything is running 100% Not looking to cut corners either. Want this done right 1st time around.

Here is a pic from before I sold the head and a pic of my speed.




Right now the possibility of the head being a 2001+ VVT is really scaring me so I was thinking of using a vvt ecu, stock miata sensors, and harness with wiring lengthend/shortend as needed for fwd setup. Then try to get the everything running right with a add on controller. maybe a link, hydra or MS unit of some kind. got alot of reading to do to find a unit that i know can do everything i am looking for.

[vtec-this]

[Lex]

That is a fairly intricate setup. This is certainly not a PNP project as your needs are unique and I would steer towards an MS2 system with sequential injection and ignition at the minimum. An advanced Haltech unit would work and even higher up the ranks the Motec M400 should satisfy your requirements:

http://www.motec.com.au/m400/m400overview/

It comes down to how you want to approach the build. The MS route will likely be the cheapest and least refined. Motec by far will be several times the cost but the refinement and out of the box solution is there without a lot of troubleshooting.

What company rents dynos for your personal garage btw?

[vtec-this]

there is a guy who does by the hour runs or trains you how to operate and rents it by the day. he just drops them off/picks them up. You can have it mounted as quickly as it would take you to take your rims off and bolt up to wheel assembly.

[vtec-this]

http://u2ndyno.com/

there standard rates are $1000 for 12 hours, but I am not a standard customer

[Henchman]

Wait, why are you swapping in a GTR motor into a BJ chassis?

[Lex]

Interesting about the dyno pack. My neighbors would love WOT runs into the night lol from the garage

One thing I should mention. You will want to mount a crank trigger wheel to the GTR - the distributor doesn't have the engine speed accuracy you'd need to take advantage of the ignition features you're looking for.

I am also curious why you didn't simply build the FS instead of installing a BPD.

[vtec-this]

1. because the fsde sucks ****
2. after selling the head and cams, I paid only $20 for a complete GTR bottom end and oil cooler (last I checked should hold 400whp without any complaints best $20 I ever spent I thinks )
3. Toyota Trans FTW Mazda trans sucks
4. FSDE sucks.
5. FSDET transmission sucks (would take over $5,000 to make it as strong as the toyota and even then it still sucks)
6. FSDE sucks.
7. I have enough bent FSDE rods and pistons lying around that I could make a checkers board and play bent rods vs good rods
8. Im tired of swapping out FSDE engines and transmissions. I have realized they suck and are not worth wasting any more of my life with.
9. The cost of buying and then having professionally installed FSDE forged rods, pistons, AWR Oil pan, aftermarket oil system alone will cost me more than my car is worth and will still suck as the trans will just break the first time out to the track. Not to mention the oil system sucks so much balls it could put jenna haze out of business. The aftermarket transmission options are expensive as hell and over time will still suck. (sure the puerto ricans like the FSDE, but there is more money into their cars than 2 mazdaspeeds are even worth, again the FSDE sucks)
10. I will be reselling my complete FSDET engine and trans to someone with goals of less than 250whp and will actually make money doing this swap
11. FSDE sucks
12. Got the miata head for less than a few good lap dances
13. FSDE sucks

In all seriousness though the FSDE sucks.

Its only great as long as you are under 250whp. Otherwise it sucks and is a waste of time to build (sorry for all the suckers that did-i was the biggest sucker of all)

So ya, the fabrication involved with the swap Im fine with, the only thing I am stumbling on is the EMS decision. All of my experience with EMS is tuning plug and play units that only require fuel and timing tables to be entered. Thats why I was leaning towards getting a vvt ecu running the motor and adding a piggy back.

Im reading up on the motec and the AEM universal. Both seem to kick ass. AEM autotune feature looks very appealing. Trouble with either system will be figuring out the initial setup parameters. Im sure its cake after that. A/F table and timing are easy with good wbo2 and time to tune.

[vtec-this]

sorry for sounding like a spoiled child, I just cant express how much I hate the FSDE motor after owning so many. Nothing but bent rods, broken diffs and busted trans for years on end trying to make over 250whp with a stock bottom end. For normal people that enoy the FSDE for what it is and keep their goals realistic it will work fine, but Im looking for something a bit more rediculous.

I guess if you have the coin to throw $3000+ USD at a professionally built motor and $5,000+ on a built trans it could perform "ok". But a stock bp05 can do just as good. (lol not even going to compare to a GTX/R, a n/a bp05 is still probably stronger than 99% of the built FSDEs out there lol last I checked a chick was pulling 400whp on her stock internals miata )

anyways to each their own I guess so nobod take offense to my remarks. I was always hoping to hit 12.9 with the FSDE but when the chance for the GTR came around for such an amazing deal I would have been nuts to turn it down.

Im just eager to see how well my $20 GTR motor stacks up

[bomdoutscort]

I think this itb setup is gonna throw you off track to your goals. A good gtr manifold will do you just fine and just go from there. Personally the itbs is the sex but to me(not you) it just sounds so complicated. How about you get your setup running with a non itb setup and see if you want to go that route after.

[mx-3_4evr]

Not worth going ITBs + turbo. Just slap a 3" Throttle body to that GTR manifold and you are set! Just make sure you run a stand alone ECU

[Lex]

They really **** the bed with using the stock rods on the bottom end of the FSDET. They **** the bed on having the DISI MZR motor easily make more torque than the rods like to hold as well with simple bolt ons.

That being said, after owning 2 FWD cars with torque well into the 300s, it's painfully obvious why FWD sucks at those power levels. Going around corners and using the throttle is a constant battle.

[vtec-this]

hopefully the TRD LSD and taller gears will help with getting the power down. I dont have manifolds from the motor as I am going with tubular manifold and larger turbo, and figured I could pull off the ITBs for less than the cost of a GTR intake manifold + throttle body.

Whats the biggest problem with tuning the ITBs? The hayabusa TPS? Maybe I could just retrofit a stock TPS in some way. I was really hoping to have the ITBs as they are like sex to me too. Been following MX3-4Evers how to , didnt think they would cause major issues since I will be using a nice plenum around the trumpets (my friend says he can make it out of carbon fiber for me with a really nice finish) so there will be plenty of VAC for signals to devices, brake booster etc.
Hmm.

[Lex]

A turbo manifold like Ferdi's might be the ticket.

[mx-3_4evr]

you get vacuum after the throttle bodies, not before like in the plenum. It's possible but you have to do a lot of tuning.