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NED Import Madness 9/25/10

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    NED Import Madness 9/25/10

    so i took the car to New England Dragway yesterday for their last import event of the year. lots of v8 classes were running as well which was weird, but good - without the v8's there the track prep is usually sub-par for import events. my friend matt (high_body on this forum) came along and shot some videos. they should be up later in the week. this was my first time at the track since october 09 when i ran the 11.87. passes ranged from a 12.5x to a 12.15, not counting my last run which was a 15.5 but i'll get to that...

    on my 2nd to last run (12.15) the car misfired just a little, during the top ~1/3 of 4th gear. it seemed to be running, idling fine on my way back to the pits, so i decided to keep racing in the next round. lined up this time without launch control and cut a 1.85 sec 60' time, my best of the day. ripped through 2nd gear and into 3rd, that was when i noticed it was misfiring like crazy. let off around 1/3 track (i shift to 4th around 1/2 track) and coasted in for a 15.5 at 60mph . the misfire continued (although obviously less noticeable) at light loads and even idle.

    let it cool off, checked the plugs and my #4 plug was in really tough shape. the ground electrode was, well... gone (i'll post a pic). not sure if it came off in one piece or eroded away slowly. lots of spatter on the plug from what must have been pretty serious detonation . not sure what the cause is yet, i'm thinking maybe a partially clogged injector? plugs 2 and 3 looked completely normal, although the top of piston #3 looked a little wet. could have been residual fuel from when i shut it down, could also have been oil, not sure. the plug in cyl 1 also looked like it got too hot, the tip of the ground electrode looked slightly melted and the piston top was smooth and mostly clean (unusual, usually they have a light coating of carbon). 1&4 are on the same coil pack, not sure if that means anything or not.

    i got a used plug from one of the faster honda teams (9-10 second car that changes plugs all the time) and made the 2 hour drive home. at this time the engine is not smoking or misfiring at all and ran fine the whole way home, although i obviously took it pretty easy.

    next up... prognosis. i talked to a friend last night about borrowing a bore scope. his father is a mazda master tech/instructor, and he has access to all kinds of special tools, including a bore scope. they used it on his mazdaspeed protege a while back. i'll also do a compression test, and pull the turbo to check for damage to the turbine blades. depending how all of this goes i may need to pull the head (ugh).
    Escort GTR -- 11.87 @ 117.6 mph -- 320 HP / 325 Ft. Lbs. @ 23 PSI
    ... The first FWD BG with a Toyota E153 transmission conversion in the USA!
    Looking for BP x Toyota E153 adapter plates? PM me or contact me on Facebook: Riel Performance Parts

    #2
    Yikes, this is not good news. What AFRs were you targeting with your MAP? It sounds like a fuel delivery issue that affected all the injectors. Was the line on the FPR still on? Fuel pump maybe?

    I hope it's not terribly serious - keep us posted.

    Comment


      #3
      vac line on FPR is still on. AFR's are tuned for mid 11's at full boost (~23 psi). during my 2nd to last run with the misfire first appeared, i scrutinized the log but didnt find anything especially unusual. AFR's stayed spot on through the end of the run, but the RPM curve during the last few seconds was a little rough due to the misfire. i would have/should have pulled the plugs then, but i hate pulling them when the engine is hot. i've heard too many stories of people stripping the threads in the head by doing this.

      my log of the partial/final run showed unstable AFR's spiking into the mid 13's at full boost. this could have been due to raw fuel being dumped into the exhaust if that cylinder was not firing at all. from what i understand, misfires where fuel passes through the engine unburned will show up as lean on a wideband.
      Last edited by therieldeal; 09-26-2010, 02:13 PM.
      Escort GTR -- 11.87 @ 117.6 mph -- 320 HP / 325 Ft. Lbs. @ 23 PSI
      ... The first FWD BG with a Toyota E153 transmission conversion in the USA!
      Looking for BP x Toyota E153 adapter plates? PM me or contact me on Facebook: Riel Performance Parts

      Comment


        #4
        Perhaps the failure started at the plug itself coming apart and pieces bouncing in the cylinder or causing hot spots. How old were the plugs?

        Comment


          #5
          plugs were only 2-3k miles old. mostly normal around town driving, trying to break in the bum clutch that i first installed last fall.
          Escort GTR -- 11.87 @ 117.6 mph -- 320 HP / 325 Ft. Lbs. @ 23 PSI
          ... The first FWD BG with a Toyota E153 transmission conversion in the USA!
          Looking for BP x Toyota E153 adapter plates? PM me or contact me on Facebook: Riel Performance Parts

          Comment


            #6
            How about your fuel pump? If it's pretty new, I'm just asking dumb questions but a momentary loss of pressure or cavitation could have caused the initial detonation. Then with the spark plug gone, it would continue to run crappy.
            Loose nut behind the wheel...

            Comment


              #7
              the fuel pump is a walbro 255, bought new and installed 4 years ago when i built the car. i don't have any way to monitor fuel pressure, however i will double check all my logs from yesterday to see if there are any wierd AFR spikes. i don't believe there were... i usually check the 3rd and 4th gear parts of the logs pretty carefully since that is when the engine is under the most load.
              Escort GTR -- 11.87 @ 117.6 mph -- 320 HP / 325 Ft. Lbs. @ 23 PSI
              ... The first FWD BG with a Toyota E153 transmission conversion in the USA!
              Looking for BP x Toyota E153 adapter plates? PM me or contact me on Facebook: Riel Performance Parts

              Comment


                #8
                Sounds pretty simple.. If compression is good I'd say you have a coil pack going and/or possibly an injector problem..... could have been a bad plug...

                Comment


                  #9
                  How speckled was the plug? Was it aluminum?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    how much voltage from your coil packs, and what plugs you runnin? Hotter coil=faster plug erosion.
                    94 pro base model, all synthetic fluids, s/r struts, front & rear ebay upper strut bars,front & rear tie bar, ZX2 1" front swaybar, EGT 21mm rear sway bar, custom delrin endlinks front & rear, custom delrin rear swaybar mount bushings, EBC front blanks & redstuff pads, CS ss brake lines & dot 4 fluid, big drum brakes in rear (from ZX2, free parts), 2.25 custom exaust w/magnaflo oval muffler, 4-wire o2 sensor, custom ram-air, 4-wire BP tb, MSD super conducter plug wires, MSD Blaster SS coil, NGK iridiums,OEM weighted shift knob, ebay short shifter, bronzoil bushings, CS ss clutch line, custom air splitter, mx-3 recaro drivers seat, EGT foglight switch, 35w 5000k hi/lo hid's

                    soon:
                    lightened flywheel & clutch; in garage,
                    Miata Daisy's; after new tires

                    Comment


                      #11
                      they are NGK BKR7E the regular copper plugs that everyone runs. gapped to .032". the coils are stock DSM 4G63T coils. unfortunately this is definitely not a matter of plug erosion from the spark, once you see this thing you will agree LOL

                      i'll take some close up pics of the plugs tomorrow. i also want to pull out the plug i ran in cyl 4 on the way home to see if it still looks normal or not.

                      also my friend dropped off a cd with the videos on it, i'll be uploading them to youtube tomorrow night as well. man did i take off hard on that last run...
                      Last edited by therieldeal; 09-26-2010, 11:31 PM.
                      Escort GTR -- 11.87 @ 117.6 mph -- 320 HP / 325 Ft. Lbs. @ 23 PSI
                      ... The first FWD BG with a Toyota E153 transmission conversion in the USA!
                      Looking for BP x Toyota E153 adapter plates? PM me or contact me on Facebook: Riel Performance Parts

                      Comment


                        #12
                        oh **** this doesnt sound good...
                        92 protege lx-

                        94 protege lx-

                        95 escort gt-ms2e/ms2extra pre3.3alpha5 gslender v2.8-e85-vj23@12lbs----dead--

                        are you a thinker, or a believer?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          videos:
                          Escort GTR -- 11.87 @ 117.6 mph -- 320 HP / 325 Ft. Lbs. @ 23 PSI
                          ... The first FWD BG with a Toyota E153 transmission conversion in the USA!
                          Looking for BP x Toyota E153 adapter plates? PM me or contact me on Facebook: Riel Performance Parts

                          Comment


                            #14
                            videos:
                            Escort GTR -- 11.87 @ 117.6 mph -- 320 HP / 325 Ft. Lbs. @ 23 PSI
                            ... The first FWD BG with a Toyota E153 transmission conversion in the USA!
                            Looking for BP x Toyota E153 adapter plates? PM me or contact me on Facebook: Riel Performance Parts

                            Comment


                              #15
                              pics of cyl 4 spark plug
                              Attached Files
                              Escort GTR -- 11.87 @ 117.6 mph -- 320 HP / 325 Ft. Lbs. @ 23 PSI
                              ... The first FWD BG with a Toyota E153 transmission conversion in the USA!
                              Looking for BP x Toyota E153 adapter plates? PM me or contact me on Facebook: Riel Performance Parts

                              Comment

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