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    #16
    Heavier Than Recommended Viscosity Transmission Oil - Is it Ever Justified?

    On a recent msprotege Forum thread, the question was raised as to whether SOME transmission failures in highly modified engines (especially those that see frequent drag, track or rally racing) might be due to inadequate lubrication rather than to a strength of materials issue. This being a possibility, the suggestion was made that a switch to a heavier viscosity oil might be beneficial in terms of increasing transmission life and reliability. This might be something that those of you with turbo or otherwise heavily modded n.a. engines might want to consider. The question then becomes, what would be an appropriate oil?

    All of the following information comes from the Red Line oil website because the company has the most informative, comprehensive and complete array of technical specifications, data and descriptive information of any oil company website I know of.

    Red Line makes three classes of oils suitable for M/T cars: Synthetic M/T Lubricant, Synthetic Gear Oil and ShockProof Gear Oil. The synthetic M/T lubricant, MT-90, is considered the oil of choice for our Protege transmissions.

    The ShockProof oils (SuperLight, Lightweight and Heavy ShockProof) are not recommended for synchro type transmissions as Red Line considers these oils too slippery for optimal synchro engagement. Consequently, although LightWeight is a 75W-140 rated oil and Heavy is rated at 75W-250, neither oil is suitable as a higher viscosity replacement because of the synchro problem.

    In the Gear Oil category, both the 75W-90 and 80W-140 are also not recommended by Red Line for the same reason-both oils are too slippery and thus prevent rapid synchronization. The two Gear Oils Red Line DOES recommend for M/Ts with synchros are 75W-90NS and 75W-140NS (both GL-5 rated oils) because, according to Red Line, "these gear oils don't contain the friction modifiers for limited-slip hypoid differentials. This makes the transmission synchronizers come to equal speeds more quickly, allowing faster shifting and much easier low-temperature shifting." Further proof of the suitability of these oils for our transmissions rests on the fact that these two oils are also listed in the M/T lubricant category along with MTL and MT-90. Clearly, it would seem that for those who think they may need a heavier viscosity M/T oil (other than the OEM recommendation), 75W-140NS would be the oil of choice.

    I'm not recommending this practice but simply commenting on possible alternatives for others to consider.

    Happy Motoring!
    02 DX Millenium Red - The Penultimate Driving Machine
    MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit; Cusco Front Lower Arm Tie Bar
    MSP Springs, Struts, Stabilizer Bars, Trailing Links, #3 Engine Mount
    Kartboy Stabilizer Bar Bushings; Nyloil Shifter Bushings; Red Line MT-90 Gear Oil
    MP3 Shifter, Knob and Aluminum Pedal Set
    Suvlights HD Wiring Harness; Osram Night Breaker H4 Bulbs; Exide Edge AGM Battery
    Summer: 5Zigen FN01R-C 16 x 7" Wheels; Yoko S.drive 205/45-16s
    Winter: Enkei OR52 16 x 7" Wheels; Falken Ziex ZE-912 205/45-16s
    Modified OEM Air Intake; Racing Beat Exhaust System; Techna-Fit SS Clutch Line
    Denso SKJ16CR-L11 Extended Tip Spark Plugs; Magnecor Wires
    Power Slot Front Brake Rotors; Techna-Fit SS Brake Lines; Hawk HPS Pads
    Red Line Synthetic Engine Oil; C/S Aluminum Oil Cap
    Cyberdyne Digital Gauges: Tach; Ambient Air Temp; Voltmeter

    Comment


      #17
      In my other cars - Hondas and Toyotas - I have done automatic transmission fluid changes by doing 3 drain and fills, which typically changes out 80% +/- of the fluid. A 4th gets to 90% +/- (Honda's can be damaged with power flush systems). What I have not found is how many quarts do indeed get drained on the Protege (I have an '02 with the 2.0 engine). Anyone have specs on this?

      Comment


        #18
        If I'm understanding you correctly, you just want to drain the transmission oil pan, seal, it up, refill, and do this 4 times to carry out a fluid exchange in the A/T.

        Although the FSM specifies the total capacity of the A/T after a complete drain as being 7.2 L (7.6 quarts), it doesn't mention how much fluid is contained in the oil pan alone. Just have several containers on hand for the first refill and after that you'll know how much is needed each time. Incidently, oil pan draining is the only method mentioned in the FSM for fluid replacement.

        Happy Motoring!
        02 DX Millenium Red - The Penultimate Driving Machine
        MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit; Cusco Front Lower Arm Tie Bar
        MSP Springs, Struts, Stabilizer Bars, Trailing Links, #3 Engine Mount
        Kartboy Stabilizer Bar Bushings; Nyloil Shifter Bushings; Red Line MT-90 Gear Oil
        MP3 Shifter, Knob and Aluminum Pedal Set
        Suvlights HD Wiring Harness; Osram Night Breaker H4 Bulbs; Exide Edge AGM Battery
        Summer: 5Zigen FN01R-C 16 x 7" Wheels; Yoko S.drive 205/45-16s
        Winter: Enkei OR52 16 x 7" Wheels; Falken Ziex ZE-912 205/45-16s
        Modified OEM Air Intake; Racing Beat Exhaust System; Techna-Fit SS Clutch Line
        Denso SKJ16CR-L11 Extended Tip Spark Plugs; Magnecor Wires
        Power Slot Front Brake Rotors; Techna-Fit SS Brake Lines; Hawk HPS Pads
        Red Line Synthetic Engine Oil; C/S Aluminum Oil Cap
        Cyberdyne Digital Gauges: Tach; Ambient Air Temp; Voltmeter

        Comment


          #19
          Yes Goldstar, this is what I want to do. On my '06 Accord 4 cyl, the automatic transmission takes 6.9 quarts, with 3 quarts that drain from the pan. So each drain and fill changes out 43% of the fluid. My Pilot is larger, but the % changed is the same. Both these specs are included in Honda service manuals. I am hoping to find this same level of info. I would guess that it is similar - about 40% - 45% changed with a drain and fill. I know it is not good to overfill the tranny though, so I would like the Mazda defined amount if available. Thanks!

          Comment


            #20
            The defined amount of ATF in the oil pan is not specified in the FSM. After draining, to avoid overfilling use the FSM specified fill proceedure. This involves adding ATF through the oil filler tube until the ATF level reaches the lower notch of the dipstick. With the ATF hot, add fluid until the level is between the two upper marks on the dipstick. After you do it once, you should have a good idea of how much ATF is needed for subsequent fills.

            Happy Motoring!
            02 DX Millenium Red - The Penultimate Driving Machine
            MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit; Cusco Front Lower Arm Tie Bar
            MSP Springs, Struts, Stabilizer Bars, Trailing Links, #3 Engine Mount
            Kartboy Stabilizer Bar Bushings; Nyloil Shifter Bushings; Red Line MT-90 Gear Oil
            MP3 Shifter, Knob and Aluminum Pedal Set
            Suvlights HD Wiring Harness; Osram Night Breaker H4 Bulbs; Exide Edge AGM Battery
            Summer: 5Zigen FN01R-C 16 x 7" Wheels; Yoko S.drive 205/45-16s
            Winter: Enkei OR52 16 x 7" Wheels; Falken Ziex ZE-912 205/45-16s
            Modified OEM Air Intake; Racing Beat Exhaust System; Techna-Fit SS Clutch Line
            Denso SKJ16CR-L11 Extended Tip Spark Plugs; Magnecor Wires
            Power Slot Front Brake Rotors; Techna-Fit SS Brake Lines; Hawk HPS Pads
            Red Line Synthetic Engine Oil; C/S Aluminum Oil Cap
            Cyberdyne Digital Gauges: Tach; Ambient Air Temp; Voltmeter

            Comment


              #21
              When I get to this service this summer, and being the annal retentive guy that I am, I will pour the fluid that drains into a measured container and post back. Thanks!

              Comment


                #22
                You're welcome.

                Measuring the amount of fluid drained from the oil pan will provide useful data for those who plan to replace their A/T oil using your method.

                We look forward to your posting this information.

                Happy Motoring!
                02 DX Millenium Red - The Penultimate Driving Machine
                MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit; Cusco Front Lower Arm Tie Bar
                MSP Springs, Struts, Stabilizer Bars, Trailing Links, #3 Engine Mount
                Kartboy Stabilizer Bar Bushings; Nyloil Shifter Bushings; Red Line MT-90 Gear Oil
                MP3 Shifter, Knob and Aluminum Pedal Set
                Suvlights HD Wiring Harness; Osram Night Breaker H4 Bulbs; Exide Edge AGM Battery
                Summer: 5Zigen FN01R-C 16 x 7" Wheels; Yoko S.drive 205/45-16s
                Winter: Enkei OR52 16 x 7" Wheels; Falken Ziex ZE-912 205/45-16s
                Modified OEM Air Intake; Racing Beat Exhaust System; Techna-Fit SS Clutch Line
                Denso SKJ16CR-L11 Extended Tip Spark Plugs; Magnecor Wires
                Power Slot Front Brake Rotors; Techna-Fit SS Brake Lines; Hawk HPS Pads
                Red Line Synthetic Engine Oil; C/S Aluminum Oil Cap
                Cyberdyne Digital Gauges: Tach; Ambient Air Temp; Voltmeter

                Comment


                  #23
                  Given the choice between oil that's too slippery for the synchros to engage "properly", and oil that might let the shafts bind, flex, and then explode, I'll take the synchro issue. I've never had problems shifting gears running 50-50 mtl/shockproof, or torco rgl 90-140 etc.
                  I figure you oughtta treat these glass gearboxes like they don't have synchros anyhow. Match rev, doubleclutch etc. I'm pretty sure that's why I haven't blown as many of them up as is typical.
                  '90 AWD Protege, full GTR drivetrain swap, ~320 whp daily driver, RIP, and
                  '90 AWD Protege, yet another GTR swap, Open class rallycar with a Toyota GT4 gearbox swap, thus crossing the line between hobby and mental illness. And a Brabus E55 K8, removing all doubt.
                  http://www.wihandyman.com/forum/vbpi...?do=view&g=110
                  http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2599486

                  Comment

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