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    #31
    Damn goldstar, you beat me to the punch. I agree with you. Water is much more heavier than air. With all of the drain holes inside of the intake system, rain water will not get into the system. We had a bad storm a while back that I had to drive in. When I got home I parked in the garage, poped the air box off and not a trace of water in the box of filter.

    I am still going to make the intake scoop, but I am working 2 jobs rightnow. I will be done at LL Beans next week. I will start then.
    MODS:
    I/E/SS/

    "It is the function of the Navy to carry the war to the enemy so that it will not be fought on U.S. soil."

    Comment


      #32
      This is a good topic....

      To Goldstar, did you cut your grill in the same location as Irish, or did you cut out the area that you look down on with the hood open (where Irish plans to put a scoop)?

      From what I read of Traveler's post it seemed like he cut the area were Irish will make a scoop, saying that he could also get to the horn (which we all know sounds like a B*cth and should be changed). I do like Irish's did it though I would just drill trough any of the blocked diamonds in the front of the grill, airflow may not be as great but I think there will still be some positive pressure.
      Yao!

      Comment


        #33
        S_C_I_P_I_079,

        Thanks for your interest. When you open the hood, you will see a horizontal piece of plastic that connects the grill to its support underneath the snorkel inlet. I removed the entire horizontal piece with the sole exception of a stiffening rib in approximately the center. this leaves a cut out area~8.75" x ~3.5" with the exception of the rib. I filed smooth all cut edges. I did not drill through any blocked "diamonds" in the grill as this is not necessary. After removing this horizontal piece, notice that the ambient air can now flow through the grill and directly up into the inlet. With the stock set-up, this flow path does not exist as the horizontal piece completely blocks the air flow from the grill to the inlet. I believe this modification is identical to the one that Traveler carried out.

        It's also interesting to note that the snorkel inlet size is~5 13/16" (5.8125") wide x~1.25" high for a total inlet area of~7.27 sq.ins. The total grill inlet area is considerably greater than this so there is no question that a more than adequate pathway exists to supply the snorkel inlet with all the air it requires. Finally, note that when the hood is closed, the weather stripping that surrounds the snorkel inlet is designed to prevent hot, underhood air from leaking into the inlet.

        I hope this answers your question sufficiently.

        02 DX Millenium Red
        Last edited by goldstar; 12-16-2003, 11:44 PM.
        02 DX Millenium Red - The Penultimate Driving Machine
        MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit; Cusco Front Lower Arm Tie Bar
        MSP Springs, Struts, Stabilizer Bars, Trailing Links, #3 Engine Mount
        Kartboy Stabilizer Bar Bushings; Nyloil Shifter Bushings; Red Line MT-90 Gear Oil
        MP3 Shifter, Knob and Aluminum Pedal Set
        Suvlights HD Wiring Harness; Osram Night Breaker H4 Bulbs; Exide Edge AGM Battery
        Summer: 5Zigen FN01R-C 16 x 7" Wheels; Yoko S.drive 205/45-16s
        Winter: Enkei OR52 16 x 7" Wheels; Falken Ziex ZE-912 205/45-16s
        Modified OEM Air Intake; Racing Beat Exhaust System; Techna-Fit SS Clutch Line
        Denso SKJ16CR-L11 Extended Tip Spark Plugs; Magnecor Wires
        Power Slot Front Brake Rotors; Techna-Fit SS Brake Lines; Hawk HPS Pads
        Red Line Synthetic Engine Oil; C/S Aluminum Oil Cap
        Cyberdyne Digital Gauges: Tach; Ambient Air Temp; Voltmeter

        Comment


          #34
          Yep,
          Thanks for the info.
          Awhile ago I had a chance to look under the hood of a base Mitsubishi Lancer (not the Evo) and noticed that it too had a snorkel pickup in a similar location as the Protege, except the air is allowed to pass from the grill in the same way that this cut to our grill allows. From what I've seen in a photo, I believe the Honda S2000 is the same way. Maybe Mazda was a little too lazy to not cut out that area, but maybe that would have added another $20 to the price of the car who knows?

          I can't justify buying a CAI when I don't have any other mods, plus the loss of low end that I here about with them turns me off.
          Yao!

          Comment


            #35
            just too throw my .02 in....
            In another thread the mention of a self made front grill of metal mesh was made. Is this mod possible in conjunction with the mesh grill mod?
            Also to cosider would changeovers of stock front ends to a new kit void the usefullness of this mod? After all teh grill may or may not be there anymore, voiding the effects of this mod....

            any thoughts?
            Visit My Garage

            Comment


              #36
              Iceman112K3,

              I would think that even if switching to a metal grill, it would still be necessary for the grill to be open so that air flow could be provided for radiator cooling thus also allowing air flow to the snorkel inlet. Even with a change over to a new front end, a pathway would still be needed for radiator cooling and I imagine that use could be made of this to also supply the air inlet.

              02 DX Millenium Red
              02 DX Millenium Red - The Penultimate Driving Machine
              MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit; Cusco Front Lower Arm Tie Bar
              MSP Springs, Struts, Stabilizer Bars, Trailing Links, #3 Engine Mount
              Kartboy Stabilizer Bar Bushings; Nyloil Shifter Bushings; Red Line MT-90 Gear Oil
              MP3 Shifter, Knob and Aluminum Pedal Set
              Suvlights HD Wiring Harness; Osram Night Breaker H4 Bulbs; Exide Edge AGM Battery
              Summer: 5Zigen FN01R-C 16 x 7" Wheels; Yoko S.drive 205/45-16s
              Winter: Enkei OR52 16 x 7" Wheels; Falken Ziex ZE-912 205/45-16s
              Modified OEM Air Intake; Racing Beat Exhaust System; Techna-Fit SS Clutch Line
              Denso SKJ16CR-L11 Extended Tip Spark Plugs; Magnecor Wires
              Power Slot Front Brake Rotors; Techna-Fit SS Brake Lines; Hawk HPS Pads
              Red Line Synthetic Engine Oil; C/S Aluminum Oil Cap
              Cyberdyne Digital Gauges: Tach; Ambient Air Temp; Voltmeter

              Comment


                #37
                thank you very much.. See my eventaul plan is to modify my front/side/rear kit .. but I plan on doing the non typical more europea look if I can find the right kit, well I geuss I'll give this mod a try then.
                Visit My Garage

                Comment


                  #38
                  Hi,

                  Well in light of this post I tried it today and also have pictures on how I did it. I did slightly variate from the original instructions, instead of taking the entire peice out of the guard I removed 2 smaller portions. I will explain futher on why this was done.

                  The below image shows the intake snorkel of my Ford Laser (same as a 3rd generation Protege). The areas highlighted in green is where I had planned to cut. The other area highlighted in pink could also be cut but I did not want to compromise strength and design too much. However in the near future I will most likley remove that aswell.



                  Using a standard Swiss Army Pocket Knife (don't leave home without one! ) I slowly removed the planned areas. Cutting the plastic was fairly hard. However the plastic is not brittle its just very firm. Somethign like trying to cut through almost frozen butter with a table knife. This only took about 5 minutes or so. The result is shown below.



                  I might later today remove the 3rd peice but i would like your opinions on how it has gone so far and if it is worth cutting that other peice out. What I have removed so far is about the same as the surface area of the intake from the snorkel.


                  Now i do have a question. I was looking into the MAF (i'm not entireley sure of what you are talking about. What I did do was remove the upper airbox and the sensor (which is what I was assuming was what you were talking about) however i did not find the grille. If you look at the image below the area circled in fluro green is what i removed. However after looking at it for a second time I noticed another sensor closer to the engine. This is highlighted in red. Is that where the grille is located?



                  Anyway that's my input. Also look at my other post I will be putting up shortly regarding a different air intake. I mentioned this in my welcome post but I will go further into it with images. I would appreciate anyone's feedback into taht project and if it is viable or not.

                  Thank you.
                  Last edited by bonsai; 01-17-2004, 12:29 AM. Reason: forgot to add image link
                  Diary of a nerd;
                  A life? Cool! Where can i download one of those from?

                  Mazda 323 trapped in a Ford Laser body! Thats my story


                  Comment


                    #39
                    bonsai,

                    I know this is difficult to describe in words but I'll try to indicate to you how much material I removed. I removed the entire horizontal grill support under the air inlet except for one strip which I left in place about 1/3 of the way from the left most edge of the cut out piece (facing the front of the car). Here you will notice is a molded projection which juts out from the radiator side. I left that in place as well as the material between it and the grill side. The narrow horizontal strip that remains in place is only as wide as the width of the molded piece. This narrow strip that remains provides more than adequate support and insures the maximum opening for air flow between the grill and the snorkel air inlet.

                    I believe that removing all of the material I suggest will promote the smoothest most direct air flow and reduce turbulence as much as possible since there will be less material projecting into the air stream. Therefore, I definitely think you should remove the rest of the material as indicated in your photo.

                    Turning now to the MAF sensor, unfortunately the photo did not come up so I could not see to what you were referring. However, I'll try to explain the proceedure. The MAF sensor is the square box-like structure that fits between the air box and the corrugated hose that connects to the throttle body. Disconnect the electrical plug from the MAF and then loosen the clamp between it and the hose. Remove the two bolts that connect the MAF to its mounting bracket. You can now pull the MAF away from the air box. On the inlet side of the MAF adjacent to the air box you will see a plastic screen or mesh. This can now be removed by gently pushing the screen out from the opposite side being careful not to damage the sensor. I used a wooden dowel to drift the screen out and very little force is needed. After removal, push the MAF back into the air box, attach the throttle body hose to the other end of the MAF and tighten the clamp, plug in the electrical connector and you're done.

                    I hope I was able to answer all of your questions. Good luck with the mod.

                    02 DX Millenium Red
                    Last edited by goldstar; 01-17-2004, 08:30 AM.
                    02 DX Millenium Red - The Penultimate Driving Machine
                    MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit; Cusco Front Lower Arm Tie Bar
                    MSP Springs, Struts, Stabilizer Bars, Trailing Links, #3 Engine Mount
                    Kartboy Stabilizer Bar Bushings; Nyloil Shifter Bushings; Red Line MT-90 Gear Oil
                    MP3 Shifter, Knob and Aluminum Pedal Set
                    Suvlights HD Wiring Harness; Osram Night Breaker H4 Bulbs; Exide Edge AGM Battery
                    Summer: 5Zigen FN01R-C 16 x 7" Wheels; Yoko S.drive 205/45-16s
                    Winter: Enkei OR52 16 x 7" Wheels; Falken Ziex ZE-912 205/45-16s
                    Modified OEM Air Intake; Racing Beat Exhaust System; Techna-Fit SS Clutch Line
                    Denso SKJ16CR-L11 Extended Tip Spark Plugs; Magnecor Wires
                    Power Slot Front Brake Rotors; Techna-Fit SS Brake Lines; Hawk HPS Pads
                    Red Line Synthetic Engine Oil; C/S Aluminum Oil Cap
                    Cyberdyne Digital Gauges: Tach; Ambient Air Temp; Voltmeter

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by goldstar
                      bonsai,

                      I know this is difficult to describe in words but I'll try to indicate to you how much material I removed. I removed the entire horizontal grill support under the air inlet except for one strip which I left in place about 1/3 of the way from the left most edge of the cut out piece (facing the front of the car). Here you will notice is a molded projection which juts out from the radiator side. I left that in place as well as the material between it and the grill side. The narrow horizontal strip that remains in place is only as wide as the width of the molded piece. This narrow strip that remains provides more than adequate support and insures the maximum opening for air flow between the grill and the snorkel air inlet.

                      I believe that removing all of the material I suggest will promote the smoothest most direct air flow and reduce turbulence as much as possible since there will be less material projecting into the air stream. Therefore, I definitely think you should remove the rest of the material as indicated in your photo.

                      Turning now to the MAF sensor, unfortunately the photo did not come up so I could not see to what you were referring. However, I'll try to explain the proceedure. The MAF sensor is the square box-like structure that fits between the air box and the corrugated hose that connects to the throttle body. Disconnect the electrical plug from the MAF and then loosen the clamp between it and the hose. You can now pull the MAF away from the air box. On the inlet side of the MAF adjacent to the air box you will see a plastic screen or mesh. This can now be removed by gently pushing the screen out from the opposite side being careful not to damage the sensor. I used a wooden dowel to drift the screen out and very little force is needed. After removal, push the MAF back into the air box, attach the throttle body hose to the other end of the MAF and tighten the clamp, plug in the electrical connector and you're done.

                      I hope I was able to answer all of your questions. Good luck with the mod.

                      02 DX Millenium Red
                      goldstar,

                      Thanks for the info. I'll do that tomorrow. I've taken the -ve terminal off my battery for the night to reset the ECU and i'll drive it around tomorrow. Not before i remove the rest of the plastic however.

                      In regards to the MAF, the image was;



                      The part highlighted which i thought was the MAF sounds right. However when opening it up i did not find any mesh of sorts. However i have taken a photo of what it looked inside just to confirm this. The link is here;




                      If im blind enough not to see it please point it out to me.

                      Thanks for all your help.

                      bonsai-out
                      Diary of a nerd;
                      A life? Cool! Where can i download one of those from?

                      Mazda 323 trapped in a Ford Laser body! Thats my story


                      Comment


                        #41
                        bonsai,

                        No you are definitely NOT blind. I can see the photos now and the piece you indicate is definitely the MAF sensor. However, it is somewhat different in shape and design from the one on my 3rd gen. I just wrongly assumed that yours and mine would be the same. Most strikingly, it doesn't have a screen nor does it look like there is even a provision for one. As far as I'm concerned, this is all to the good since it appears that there is already one less restriction in your intake system.

                        There has been much discussion on the forums about the purpose of this screen although I believe it serves a protective function only as described by Edgar in his article about Eliminating Negative Boost, posted earlier in this thread. Interestingly, in the case of your car model, the factory seems to agree that the screen is an unnecessary part and therefore has seen fit not to incorporate it thereby eliminating the restiction it causes. This is an example of not knowing why a manufacturer does or doesn't do a certain thing which then forces you to make inferences about how to carry out a particular mod to hopefully improve performance. I guess that's part of the fun of modding cars though.

                        Thanks to your efforts, I've learned something new. When you design your new intake system, I will definitely be interested in hearing about it.

                        02 DX Millenium Red
                        02 DX Millenium Red - The Penultimate Driving Machine
                        MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit; Cusco Front Lower Arm Tie Bar
                        MSP Springs, Struts, Stabilizer Bars, Trailing Links, #3 Engine Mount
                        Kartboy Stabilizer Bar Bushings; Nyloil Shifter Bushings; Red Line MT-90 Gear Oil
                        MP3 Shifter, Knob and Aluminum Pedal Set
                        Suvlights HD Wiring Harness; Osram Night Breaker H4 Bulbs; Exide Edge AGM Battery
                        Summer: 5Zigen FN01R-C 16 x 7" Wheels; Yoko S.drive 205/45-16s
                        Winter: Enkei OR52 16 x 7" Wheels; Falken Ziex ZE-912 205/45-16s
                        Modified OEM Air Intake; Racing Beat Exhaust System; Techna-Fit SS Clutch Line
                        Denso SKJ16CR-L11 Extended Tip Spark Plugs; Magnecor Wires
                        Power Slot Front Brake Rotors; Techna-Fit SS Brake Lines; Hawk HPS Pads
                        Red Line Synthetic Engine Oil; C/S Aluminum Oil Cap
                        Cyberdyne Digital Gauges: Tach; Ambient Air Temp; Voltmeter

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Well its good to know im not blind! Although now i feed a bit silly for wasting an hour looking for a phantom mesh.

                          It would have some ground to stand to reason. From what I understand, the Laser was made some time (a year or so) after the protoge was released in Australia. So any major bottlenecks were probably altered. But thats only my opinion anyway.
                          Diary of a nerd;
                          A life? Cool! Where can i download one of those from?

                          Mazda 323 trapped in a Ford Laser body! Thats my story


                          Comment


                            #43
                            I've done the modifications mentioned but I like the idea of ram air, so this is what I would like if there are any fabricators out there. I know this picture is of a JDM Evo but it's so simple that I can't believe it to be difficult for someone to make out of carbon or plastic. Any one willing to build, I will buy.
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                              #44
                              03zoomzoomES,

                              As an interim, if not a permanent, solution to increasing the ram air effectiveness of the air intake refer to post #31 of this thread. The snorkel has 4 drain holes on it's underside and you might try plugging them. As a safety measure, you might want to leave the hole closest to the intake open to serve as a water drain while sealing the rest. The Helmholtz resonator also has a hole at the bottom of the tube. Obviously, for maximum ram effect it would probably be necessary to plug all the holes with the exception of the first one.

                              As soon as it warms up, I'll be running some tests of my own. I plan to cover the snorkel and resonator holes with duct tape, and assuming the tape holds, will try to determine if there is a resulting increase in performance due to the now sealed system or if any problems arise due to wet-weather driving. If I like the results, I will more permanently seal the system with stainless steel screws and Permatex Black Silicone Adhesive Sealant. If I get to this stage, I'll report how I did it and what size screws I used.

                              You might want to try this until you're able to get a duct or scoop fabricated to your liking. Also, you might want to check out bonsai's thread on this Forum on the ram air intake system he is designing.

                              02 DX Millenium Red
                              02 DX Millenium Red - The Penultimate Driving Machine
                              MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit; Cusco Front Lower Arm Tie Bar
                              MSP Springs, Struts, Stabilizer Bars, Trailing Links, #3 Engine Mount
                              Kartboy Stabilizer Bar Bushings; Nyloil Shifter Bushings; Red Line MT-90 Gear Oil
                              MP3 Shifter, Knob and Aluminum Pedal Set
                              Suvlights HD Wiring Harness; Osram Night Breaker H4 Bulbs; Exide Edge AGM Battery
                              Summer: 5Zigen FN01R-C 16 x 7" Wheels; Yoko S.drive 205/45-16s
                              Winter: Enkei OR52 16 x 7" Wheels; Falken Ziex ZE-912 205/45-16s
                              Modified OEM Air Intake; Racing Beat Exhaust System; Techna-Fit SS Clutch Line
                              Denso SKJ16CR-L11 Extended Tip Spark Plugs; Magnecor Wires
                              Power Slot Front Brake Rotors; Techna-Fit SS Brake Lines; Hawk HPS Pads
                              Red Line Synthetic Engine Oil; C/S Aluminum Oil Cap
                              Cyberdyne Digital Gauges: Tach; Ambient Air Temp; Voltmeter

                              Comment


                                #45
                                I wanted to thank goldstar for such a well written, informative article.

                                I did the mods and noticed a real improvement in all round performance. I replaced my stock air filter with a K&N drop in filter a few months ago and didn't notice much of a difference; after reading all the articles I now understand why. Goldstar's mods were not only effective but inexpensive and relatively easy to do.

                                One thing I can add to these posting is a reason for why Mazda didn't do these changes themselves. Unlike other suggestions I've read today I believe the first mod has little to with engine noise or aesthetics. After seeing the actual part I can tell you that from a manufacturing standpoint putting cutouts in the part would be prohibitively expensive. The mold to produce such a part would be somewhat complex, which means it would cost a good deal more, wear out much faster (especially in high volume production) and have considerably more down time . Why would mazda spend $100,000 on a mold that is going to wear out in 3 months when they can simplify the part and run a $30,000 mold for 9 months without much down time? If we were talking about a BMW or an Audi this cost could be justified by the performance gain, but keep in mind our beloved protege's are considered economy cars. In reference to the second mod I believe it is simply an insurance policy on mazda's part. The average user more than likely doesn't even know how to pop the hood, much less where the MAF sensor screen is located. I mean seriously, how many people actually replace their airfilter ever 12,000 miles?

                                If anyone is interested I do have a digital camera and could take a few pics of the mods to show how I personally pulled it off, but goldstar's description is pretty much dead on.

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