Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Clarification of USDM Protege Full Time 4wd option

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Clarification of USDM Protege Full Time 4wd option

    I think there is some confusion about the Protege 4wd systems. I hope I can clear this up a little bit with a background on how the Protege 4wd system works.

    The US '90 and '91 Protege came with a 4wd option. The cars equipped with this option are full time 4 wheel drive, meaning that at all times all 4 of the cars wheels are turned by the engine. These cars have a 4wd drive switch on the dashboard. This does not mean the car is normally front wheel drive and the switch activates the four wheel drive. The car is always four wheel drive.

    The Proteges with the 4wd option all have a center differential, which just distributes the cars power to the front or rear wheels as they need it to get traction. There are also open differentials at both axles, these are essential in going around turns where the wheels on the inside of the corner need to spin faster than the outside wheels. Oh for clarification LSD = limited slip differential, which a specific kind of differential (the kind in the GTX/GTR transmissions).

    However a regular differential is not perfect and say the car is stuck in snow and one wheel has no hope of getting traction, because of the differential the one wheel without traction is giving the most power and will continue to correct this. There are 2 ways of avoiding this, a LSD (like the one featured in a GTX/GTR) is more advanced and will help prevent this, or you can lock the differential. The 4wd switch in the Protege locks the center differential. Therefore you use the switch when you are stuck and need better traction to get out.

    A warning: Do not drive the car with the 4wd switch depressed, this feature was designed only to help get the car out when stuck. Driving with the differential locked under normal circumstances will damage your car, most likely severely (keep in mind parts for these like differentials and axles are hard to find and expensive). It is possible to drive with the center differential locked, it is however strongly recommended against.

    I'm not too sure on the whole 4wd vs. AWD differences. I think usually American manufactures call full time systems AWD and part time engagement systems 4wd/4x4. Example: the 4x4 Bronco my family used to have we had to press a switch to turn the 4wd system on. Japanese manufacutes don't care about American naming schemes and call it whatever they want. I could have sworn I've heard the Protege setup called Full Time 4wd (might have only been in the manual. This is basically an AWD setup but I believe these cars were developed before the AWD naming system became common.

    Most of this information is what I recall from the 1991 Mazda Protege owners manual.
    Last edited by chaksq; 11-13-2007, 09:48 PM. Reason: Correctness
    1991 Mazda Protege DX | 1.8l Mazda B8 | Rotted out & junked
    1996 Ford Escort LX | 1.9l Ford SEFI | Blown engine & sold
    2000 Ford Escort ZX2 S/R | 2.0l Ford Zetec | Former project, sold due to lack of time
    1998 Subaru Legacy Outback | 2.5l Subaru EJ25 | Current daily driver

    Looking for a new project...

    #2
    Mines not labeled "Full Time 4WD". Just "4WD".

    AWD = All 4 wheels moving independently.
    4WD = All 4 wheels moving at the same speed.

    Comment


      #3
      bear in mind the diff lock only locks the center diff, not the front and rear diffs. it still has an open diff front and rear, meaning all four wheels arent spinning at the same speed. if that were true you wouldnt be able to turn.

      and you can drive with the diff locked if the surface has enough slip to it.
      Escort GTR -- 11.87 @ 117.6 mph -- 320 HP / 325 Ft. Lbs. @ 23 PSI
      ... The first FWD BG with a Toyota E153 transmission conversion in the USA!
      Looking for BP x Toyota E153 adapter plates? PM me or contact me on Facebook: Riel Performance Parts

      Comment


        #4
        I edited what I wrote a little bit, I was a little confused and frankly I don't know much about 4wd/AWD systems having never owned one.
        1991 Mazda Protege DX | 1.8l Mazda B8 | Rotted out & junked
        1996 Ford Escort LX | 1.9l Ford SEFI | Blown engine & sold
        2000 Ford Escort ZX2 S/R | 2.0l Ford Zetec | Former project, sold due to lack of time
        1998 Subaru Legacy Outback | 2.5l Subaru EJ25 | Current daily driver

        Looking for a new project...

        Comment


          #5
          I was never confuzed about it. I own one, and am very familiar with how it works. It's THREE open differentials, front, center, rear. the Diff Lock button moves a gear over locking the center diff casing to the front diff case, which is always powered. The front diff is INSIDE the center diff case, somewhat confusing to some. The car is AWD by standard, until you push the Diff Lock button, thereby engaging the 4WD. This is almost no difference than some newer trucks that are AWD with an electronic 4WD center differential lock, EXCEPT they have a seperate center diff case, while we do not. That allows trucks (or some cars such equipped) to drive at higher speeds reliably with 4WD on.

          Without the Diff Lock, the car essentially only powers ONE wheel should the other 3 be held.
          Edit add: because of the center/front design, you can also hold the front 2 shafts and the power will be transferred to the rear output.

          See this thread for more discussion as well:


          I've personally driven my 4WD at ice/dry pavement surfaces at 50+ locked in, and when it catches dry from ice, you know it. I'm sure it wasn't good for it, but it can be done without short term bad effects. I'll bet the shock was hell on the gears though. And the front "hops" since it turns at the same as the rear, while traveling further.

          The GTX/R use a VLSD center, which engages with a very small difference in rotations of front/rear. It still allows the 4WD ability (although not as perfect), without the front tire "hop." This is true AWD.

          any questions?
          Last edited by almighty4wd; 11-14-2007, 01:05 AM. Reason: had to add something
          No car! I soldz it. Now I have a truck. I like it, but apparently it has a hard time keeping up with a slightly modified 4WD protege with half the hp. Neat.

          Comment


            #6
            This is such great info that its now stuck . Keep adding logical info. All unnessesary posts will be deleted.
            1993 Protege LX-Midnight's shadow SOLD
            1996 Honda CBR600-Wrecked. Damn Honda crippled me
            2002 mazda MPV-family truckster SOLD
            2010 VW routon

            Originally posted by jay
            .....they totally underestimated the number of gearheads such as myself that have families but refuse to grow the hell up and stop playing with cars, or that otherwise see the utility of having 4 doors. Obviously I ain't alone, as there are a helluva lotta sti and evo here. Bueler? Beuler? Mazda? Mazda?

            Comment


              #7
              so if you can depress the button to lock the center diff, which is good for getting you unstuck but not good for turning, how about driving in a straight line? say at the drag strip where you want the best traction but are only going straight, can you lock it then without damage?
              "See that car, in the 80's that car was deadly." Random man to his son while passing the GTX in a parking lot

              Originally posted by neuspeedescort
              the proper spelling would be "Launchabilitiness" i do believe.
              -88' Mazda 323 GTX, 1.8t, Modified Magazine May 2012
              -88' Mazda 323 GTX, caged and ready for dirt
              -93' Mazda Miata, half caged
              -09' Mercedes C63 AMG
              -87' Toyota Land Cruiser, 33's with slight lift, safari style!

              Comment


                #8
                I doubt that locking the centerdiff for drag racing would hurt anything. But I doubt it'd help all that much, either. You'd need so damn much power to get 4 wheelspin in a straight line on dry pavement that, again, the trans would blow up before you'd need to lock the centerdiff. Both my cars are running the BPT trans with the viscous centerdiff. These can be locked, by hand from under the car; the actuator arm is present, but the difflock motor isn't installed at the factory. I just leave 'em unlocked. With a rear lsd, I don't notice any issues and I prefer the way the rallycar handles with the centerdiff unlocked.
                '90 AWD Protege, full GTR drivetrain swap, ~320 whp daily driver, RIP, and
                '90 AWD Protege, yet another GTR swap, Open class rallycar with a Toyota GT4 gearbox swap, thus crossing the line between hobby and mental illness. And a Brabus E55 K8, removing all doubt.
                http://www.wihandyman.com/forum/vbpi...?do=view&g=110
                http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2599486

                Comment


                  #9
                  yeah thats about what mine says in the owner book.. but I have noted a HUGH difference in driving the car with the diff on and off. When you turn it on the car is instanly more smooth..it feels that the power is going to the wheels better..it also seems more "stiff" when turning. I dont turn mine on much..only done it 3 times..all in heavy down pour in a parking lot for a short amount of time.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    even wet pavement is not slippery enough to safely lock the diff. the ring that locks it is NOT very strong
                    Escort GTR -- 11.87 @ 117.6 mph -- 320 HP / 325 Ft. Lbs. @ 23 PSI
                    ... The first FWD BG with a Toyota E153 transmission conversion in the USA!
                    Looking for BP x Toyota E153 adapter plates? PM me or contact me on Facebook: Riel Performance Parts

                    Comment


                      #11
                      This is something I understand..but I personly can not own a car without fully understanding how everything on it works. nothing negative has come from it..before me it had only one owner..and the lady says she never even touched the button. I belived her.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        oh and maybe this will help some one..I pulled out the good ol users manual here is what it says...

                        "The Mazda 323 equipped with 4-wheel drive (4WD) is NOT SWITCHABLE to 2-wheel drive (2WD). This is FULL-TIME 4WD system." and about the Center Differential Lock System, "The center differential lock is an electric preselector: the differential is locked or unlocked mechanically after a short delay. (It may be necessary for the vehicle to be in mortion.) This is done for smooth driving feeling and for optimum relibility. The vehicle should be driven under most conditions with the center differential unlocked. There is no need to lock the center differential except when attempting to get the vehicle free when it is mired down."

                        Comment


                          #13
                          i have had mine for months and never had to hit the switch, even in 10 inches of snow topped with ice. thing is like a little mule.
                          ________
                          CUSTOM VAPORIZER WAND/MOUTHPIECE
                          Last edited by Blazin674; 05-02-2011, 08:00 AM.
                          1995 escort wagon gtr/holset
                          1990 4wd pro - daily beater/monster car/mud buggy( sold)
                          1993 323(sold)
                          I'm buying parts i don't need, With money I don't have, To impress people I don't know.

                          Some people are like slinkies. They're not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            hey guys thanks so much for posting this information, I had a 626 before this and never even knew mazda made a 4wd anything until I just bought one which came with no owners manual of course.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Dont launch. . I did on the bone dry tarmac and now car is sat guts all over the placefwd coming!.
                              Mazda Gtr/Toyota driveline aka MAyota.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X