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FE DOHC 2.2 project

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    #16
    Originally posted by Mazdagirl View Post
    Is this GC engine FE pistons are realy fit to FE3?
    It's difficult to understand what you're asking. Only FE3/FE-DOHC pistons will work in that engine, no other F series engine pistons will fit. FE-DOHC engines use a four valve per piston design, all other F/R series engines use a two/three valve per piston design. The valve recesses on the pistons are incompatible, even though the other critical dimensions are the same.

    He uses the R2 diesel crank (2.2L), custom Wiseco pistons that he and his machinist ordered specifically for this project according to this particular engine's specifications, and custom A-beam rods made locally (to you) by a company called PO-Metalli.

    1993 Mazda Familia GTR - work log

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      #17
      It's from a GD actually. The pistons are custom order from Wiseco. GC has different dome design so while they would fit a stock FE DOHC theiy would make the engine very much an interference type.

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        #18
        If they custom order then ok, I know that was GC Capella turbo and I was thinking that you try to fit this engine pistons to FE3.

        Have u read about this 550hp Miata FE3 project? There was FE3 thirled to 2.3 litre and used Chevy rods and SR20DT pisturs and pistonrings if I remember right. If u interested then I can let my husband to find this page.
        Last edited by Mazdagirl; 03-14-2010, 03:17 AM.
        My BG Familia FE3 project full spec and plans.

        www.mazdasgarage.com/forum/ New mazda tuning forum



        1/4 mile drag with BP DOHC engine:

        Reaction: 0,5771 (not so bad)
        60 ft: 2,472 (good for conditions what was)
        ET: 16,2411 (but was heavy wind from front and custom intake was just compleated in nigt and setings was worst than bad )

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          #19
          ^ please don't mention that build. its done nothing but haunt the true FE3 community & serve to confuse the rest of the poor bastards thinking about FE3 swaps.

          /Rant
          ---Has ClubProtege helped you in someway? show your support by Contributing--- Click Here---

          1992- project FE3..... 313 WHP @ 9.3psi




          I pet my dash when I get into the car..."good car"
          he actually has a mazda tree, parts grow on it

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            #20
            Well, nothing from GC here, the source was Wiseco and I ended up with the design through original research. Though, If I had known I was going to get custom rods too, I would've picked GM 2.2l Ecotec pistons. Since they have 26.75mm compression height, I could've used 159.25mm rods and not have negative effect on stroke/rod ratio, plus it would've been quite a bit less expensive. Well... perhaps on the next build then.

            I've read the article with the Miata FE3 and while it's fun to read, it's not a very good guide to follow. First of all the FE block can not be reliably bored to true 2.3l capacity (87.5mm x 94mm), the cylinder wall thickness isn't nearly enough. Looking at the coolant channels in the deck gives a false illusion, the wall thickness isn't 9mm, it's between 3 and 4. The wall thickness is so thin, in fact, that after boring my block to 86.5 overbore we had some discussions and conversations with the engine machinist and decided to semi-fill the block for better cylinder support.

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              #21
              Alright, back to worklog...

              April/May/June 2010

              The head redecking wasn't at all as expensive as I had feared, and it was quick too! BUT the finish wasn't quite as fine as I had hoped for, and there was swarf EVERYWHERE. Took a fair while to clean.

              I finally reshaped my spring compressor to fit the FE DOHC head. I didn't make the extensions quite long enough so I had to grind away from the neck too. Not pretty, but it works.


              Installing the valve keepers really took some patience. There's not a whole lot of room to maneuver, and the valve locks just seem to want to go anywhere but on the groove. I got a nasty surprise, I was one lock short! Must've fallen out of the bag and disappeared. Ah well, fortunately Toyota locks are cheap (something Mazda parts are not...) so I'll pick up an extra soon. Anyway I got all but one valve in place, and even if risking getting ahead of myself, I started building up the intake side valve bank.




              Something I neglected to mention was further recondition of the HLA buckets. I had kept them for a long time as they were after cleaning, because used camshafts need used lifter buckets. Since I had reground my camshafts, I had to redo the top of the lifters too. I used at first 80-grit sanding paper to even out the surface, then progress to 120, 400, 800 and 1200 grit to achieve a surface with no scratch marks and sort of dull sheen. The line contact between the lifters and the old camshaft can still be seen on the lifters, but I honestly couldn't feel any distortion on that spot on any of the buckets.


              The camshaft got a surface coating, thus the lobes are black. I didn't install the bearing caps just yet, I'm going to do it soon enough tho. The dirty bolts in the pictures are not going to stay there, I've already replaced those with clean bolts.

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                #22
                what treatment did you put on the cam lobes??? & what are your regrind specs?
                ---Has ClubProtege helped you in someway? show your support by Contributing--- Click Here---

                1992- project FE3..... 313 WHP @ 9.3psi




                I pet my dash when I get into the car..."good car"
                he actually has a mazda tree, parts grow on it

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                  #23
                  The cams are nitrided. The new specs are 265 degrees of duration and 9.75mm lift; only slightly more than stock, but for a turbo it's plenty.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Crazy Drummer69 View Post
                    no other F series engine pistons will fit. FE-DOHC engines use a four valve per piston design, all other F/R series engines use a two/three valve per piston design.
                    actually the f2/f2t pistons have 4 valve reliefs.

                    just dont like incorrect info out there that people might reference in the future.
                    ~PaTricK~


                    -Current car's-
                    ~ 92 Probe GT Turbo, 90 FE3 Turbo 626GT hatch, 97 KL mtx 626, 05 Mazda6, 09 Kia Sportage V6~
                    What are you driving?

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by monoxidechild View Post
                      actually the f2/f2t pistons have 4 valve reliefs.

                      just dont like incorrect info out there that people might reference in the future.
                      True, wish I had spotted that :D

                      The exhaust valves on 12v heads aren't in the center, but offset to either side. Likewise the pistons need valve reliefs on both sides.

                      Valve layout is like this:

                      Code:
                        o  o      o  o
                      o o  o o  o o  o o
                      ...just so you'll know why they have four reliefs

                      Comment


                        #26
                        I think I'll be heading out for the Toyota shop to get the missing valve lock tomorrow, in the meanwhile I put some finishing touches on the VICS upper chamber; I already had it in pretty much the right shape in October 2008, but I really wasn't quite happy with the finishing. Here's a quick recap:



                        edges are all eaten up and the lip around the long runner bellmouths aren't shaped at all; not the least how I visioned it.



                        Here's where I got by this afternoon. I welded the spots were I had accidentally cut the sealing edge and shaped the bellmouth edges from thick and square to thin and round. Next thing to do is perhaps go once through the parts by hand with a sanding paper and then have the flange planed.

                        I honestly don't know how much, if at all, this will help but I speculate it should give quite a lot of flow to top end. I really should have it compared on a dyno, good thing this bolts right on to stock VICS lower chamber.

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                          #27
                          June 11. 2010 finished assembling the valve train.



                          I bought the crane cams assembly lube while at the store. I like the moly grease, sticks better than oil and everything. I'm betting it's the same stuff ARP sells as special thread lube. And there's a ton of it! The box contained two bags, I used perhaps 1/3rd of the first one. Instructions tell to use the stuff "liberally", I wonder just how much is enough...



                          Applied the gray goo. It's not adviced to be used on journals, so I oiled them again instead.



                          The breakout journal cap needs silicone sealant to prevent oil leaks.


                          I used plain oil to lube the threads on the bolts. There probably would've been a set of suitable studs available from ARP, but I rather suspect their benefits here. Of course, high RPM, increased spring tension and increased lift does put more strain to the valve train, but failures here are still rather rare, Anyway, the instruction was to torque to 26 Nm in two or three steps, so I first torqued them to hand tightness, the 20 Nm and finally 26. The torque wrench didn't go below 20....

                          It's very advisable to torqueing to hand tightness is done in stages, as the cams do counter a bit of resistance from the HLA's and you don't want to force anything in place.Torquing started at the center cap and was finished spiraling outwards clockwise.



                          Finally, the oiled seal is put in place. It slides in pretty easily, no tools required.



                          ....aand done. The CAS is in place to block contaminants from entering the internals; the valve cover is on and the head is in a plastic bag, waiting for the next week.

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                            #28
                            i can haz? please???
                            ---Has ClubProtege helped you in someway? show your support by Contributing--- Click Here---

                            1992- project FE3..... 313 WHP @ 9.3psi




                            I pet my dash when I get into the car..."good car"
                            he actually has a mazda tree, parts grow on it

                            Comment


                              #29
                              And now the continuation to the previous article

                              I had been chasing the C-clips for a week, but finally after rummaging the incoming bin, they found them, I paid the 1,50e (you really don't save any money by reusing old clips but risk an awful lot)

                              While undoing the bolts in the rods, I dropped one of the washers, and decided to take a photo of a little thing with grave consequences if messed up:



                              There's a bevel in the washer, that's to clear the root bevel in the bolt. If the washer goes the wrong way, the washer will collide with the bevel and it won't tighten properly. Little stuff where you can go badly wrong... The piston reinstall went well. piston ring compressor is a great aid, just tap lightly on the piston dome with a wooden handle and it slides almost by itself in. I used standard bolts for the time being, as the bottom end brace is in indefinite future. I torqued the rod bolts to 45Nm (with moly) and main bolts to 75Nm. Under spec, because I had moly at hand and used that stuff. It really is much slicker than oil.

                              And finally...


                              the stage where I thought I'd be by May 2008... no such luck. Then again, by all intents and purposes that was entirely different engine back then. The Gaskets-to-go guy advised not to use sealants, so I didn't. It got just a light coat of oil. I put a tiny bead of permatex sealant on the control oil hole, since it has a rubber ring on the stock gasket too and it's a known leak spot.



                              I cleaned and fitted the studs, making sure each threads all the way in. According to ARP, thread locker on the block end thread is okay, as long as the tightening is done while the stuff sets, so I was in a bit of a rush after applying the locker. ARP moly lube went on on the fine threads (and nut flanges), it's great the the end with the nut is fine pitch thread, all the more reason to use them. Aligning the head with studs is a great deal more delicate job than with bolts. I must say working inside the DOHC head takes some nimble digits!

                              After a brief stint of panic over 14mm 12-point socket, it was found and I got to torque the head. The numbers I got from ARP are INSANE compared to OEM bolt ratings. Apples to apples, the OEM torque is 80-86Nm and ARP was 162! With moly lube the advised torque was 110Nm, however.

                              And so, years overdue...




                              The engine is back in one piece!

                              Well, not quite, there are still important stuff like the oil pump missing, rear crank seal and such, but the principal assembly is finally done! It cleared up the garage a *lot* too. Also there's the brace/girdle I'm going to do, besides stiffening the block it allows me to use the main studs too! Making the girdle tightening height 18mm I could use head bolts or head studs as mains, pretty crafty isn't it

                              I decided not to keep the cam gears visible, as fashionable and beautiful they are. This decision is simply because I want to keep the belt as free from contamination as possible. Oil mist as such is bad for the rubber in the plastic, but that's not all. The light oily surface is sure to pick up dust and other solid particles, creating an abrasive coating on the cam belt. I've seen a few shots ot totally worn out cam gears, and while bad material quality sure has to do with it, I'm quite sure the dust and oil have done their part too. The covers do a great job shielding the belt, when the engine I took off from the 626 hatch was literally covered in grime and dirt, the belt and wheels were pristine.

                              Things are very very slowly picking up with employment. There are still certain very expensive parts to buy (turbo and intercooler, fuel system) which I'm hoping to get to buy this year. this summer preferrably.

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                                #30
                                I need to get my hands on one of those lovely MLS gaskets....... what do i need to specify when i order one?
                                ---Has ClubProtege helped you in someway? show your support by Contributing--- Click Here---

                                1992- project FE3..... 313 WHP @ 9.3psi




                                I pet my dash when I get into the car..."good car"
                                he actually has a mazda tree, parts grow on it

                                Comment

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