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    #16
    Turning the wheel fully in either direction puts a lot of stress on the pump, so I do not see why they would recommend it while the car is running. It's also the main reason you raise the car off the ground.

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      #17
      Originally posted by Raider9864 View Post
      Turning the wheel fully in either direction puts a lot of stress on the pump, so I do not see why they would recommend it while the car is running. It's also the main reason you raise the car off the ground.
      See post #4.

      Happy Motoring!
      02 DX Millenium Red - The Penultimate Driving Machine
      MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit; Cusco Front Lower Arm Tie Bar
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        #18
        I saw that already Just making a general statement is all. Personally, I wouldn't turn it lock-to-lock even if its only a second, but thats just my opinion. Most of those engineers have never picked up a wrench to begin with.

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          #19
          good write up.

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            #20
            Thank you.

            I hope you found it useful.

            Happy Motoring!
            02 DX Millenium Red - The Penultimate Driving Machine
            MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit; Cusco Front Lower Arm Tie Bar
            MSP Springs, Struts, Stabilizer Bars, Trailing Links, #3 Engine Mount
            Kartboy Stabilizer Bar Bushings; Nyloil Shifter Bushings; Red Line MT-90 Gear Oil
            MP3 Shifter, Knob and Aluminum Pedal Set
            Suvlights HD Wiring Harness; Osram Night Breaker H4 Bulbs; Exide Edge AGM Battery
            Summer: 5Zigen FN01R-C 16 x 7" Wheels; Yoko S.drive 205/45-16s
            Winter: Enkei OR52 16 x 7" Wheels; Falken Ziex ZE-912 205/45-16s
            Modified OEM Air Intake; Racing Beat Exhaust System; Techna-Fit SS Clutch Line
            Denso SKJ16CR-L11 Extended Tip Spark Plugs; Magnecor Wires
            Power Slot Front Brake Rotors; Techna-Fit SS Brake Lines; Hawk HPS Pads
            Red Line Synthetic Engine Oil; C/S Aluminum Oil Cap
            Cyberdyne Digital Gauges: Tach; Ambient Air Temp; Voltmeter

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              #21
              Thanks for the writeup! I just did this with a turkey baster. I selected this method because I didn't want to deal with taking off the hoses (mostly out of inexperience and lack of a buddy available at hand) and because for $20 worth of Mobil1 synthetic ATF, it's pretty good. I had a car with 140K original miles, PS fluid looking black and untouched.

              I'd like to correct some misconceptions in this thread.

              No reason to measure out 8oz. Suck out as much as you can! I got 11oz of black fluid from just over the "max" level. Stick your baster right into that little hole at the bottom in the reservoir where the drain hose is to get as much as you can. The only place for air to enter is the intake hose, which is angled up--when the fluid runs below that level, some air will enter the top of the hose kink. No big deal. That's very little air. It will bleed right out.

              In fact, draining 8oz from that reservoir exposes that intake hose to air anyway, so constraining yourself to 8oz is wasting more fresh fluid. That's why there is a "min" level--go below that and air can start entering (that's probably 3-4oz from max).

              As others pointed out, 4 such "flushes" (or "suck-outs") does not get you 100% fluid. Instead, if you replaced 25% fresh fluid the 1st time, the 2nd time only replaces 25% of the old/fresh mix, which means that only 25% of 75% of old is drained. That puts you at 56.25%. Basically, it's "% old fluid left over" to the power of # of flushes.

              Given total capacity of 1.1qt or 35oz, 4 fluid changes of 8oz puts you at 35% old fluid, and 6 changes puts you at 21%. However, if you do as much as you can, or 11oz, 4 changes put you at only 22% old fluid and 6 changes at 10%.

              Also, it's enough to start the car between changes and just turn the wheel lock to lock 5 or 6 times. That mixes up the fluid plenty. No need to travel 10 minutes on the street. I also revved the engine a little while doing that. Every time I noticed almost no drop in fluid level (which confirms little air entered the system).

              Originally posted by Raider9864 View Post
              I saw that already Just making a general statement is all. Personally, I wouldn't turn it lock-to-lock even if its only a second, but thats just my opinion. Most of those engineers have never picked up a wrench to begin with.
              The "do not hold for more than 5 seconds" recommendation does not at all apply to bleeding. The bleeding procedure is to turn lock-to-lock, not turn-to-lock-then-hold-at-lock-forever. The reason holding at lock is stressful is that your pump is fighting the steering stopper and losing. 5 seconds of continuously trying to fight an immobile object gets the pump heated way much. In a bleeding procedure, you're not holding it there for any length of time. Half a second. That's well within the capabilities of the power steering pump.

              Originally posted by Raider9864 View Post
              Turning the wheel fully in either direction puts a lot of stress on the pump, so I do not see why they would recommend it while the car is running. It's also the main reason you raise the car off the ground.
              That's not what the procedure that goldstar posted says. Turning the wheel fully in either direction puts normal stress on the pump, it's the holding of the steering wheel at the limit that puts a lot of stress on it.

              The factory bleeding procedure is the full procedure used when doing things like replacing power steering fluid pumps. Imagine that there is no fluid in the pump or the level is really low. You wouldn't want to run that dry, would you?

              The procedure has you turning the steering wheel without running the car (until fluid level stabilizes) to basically get the fluid into all the basic spots, so that your power steering pump doesn't run dry or on very low fluid levels. This is only necessary when the power steering pump has been replaced and the system experienced a dramatic loss of fluid. In the case of this writeup, there's full fluid remaining in the power steering pump. The only air bubble is in the air intake hose.

              The only reason that you raise the car off the ground is so that you can actually turn the wheels, unpowered, without popping a vein. Notice that after the bit w/o the car running, the procedure has you lower the car back to the ground and then do the remaining lock-to-lock turns with the car running.
              Last edited by Astral; 10-02-2012, 10:30 PM.
              2003 Mazda Protege5 Laser Blue 5MT, welded MSP LSD and more
              New England Mazda Owners Club member

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                #22
                This process is actually fairly similar to what we do at the dealership at Mazda, depending on the system. In some P/S systems the return line from the rack has a small clamp that can be removed which makes the process a lot more thorough. There is a law of diminishing returns using the suck and fill technique so removing as much fluid as possible is beneficial. Disconnecting the return line and slowly rotating the wheels left to right (vehicle off the ground) will allow .6 liters to be removed from the rack itself, which is the low point that holds the most contaminants. Reconnecting the line, filling the resovoir and then filling again once the vehicle is started and the steering moved end to end, will provide the best flush when repeated two or three times.

                Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

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                  #23
                  Astral and cartracer12 thanks for the update. Useful information that I'm sure our members, including myself, can use when renewing PS fluid.

                  Happy Motoring!
                  02 DX Millenium Red - The Penultimate Driving Machine
                  MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit; Cusco Front Lower Arm Tie Bar
                  MSP Springs, Struts, Stabilizer Bars, Trailing Links, #3 Engine Mount
                  Kartboy Stabilizer Bar Bushings; Nyloil Shifter Bushings; Red Line MT-90 Gear Oil
                  MP3 Shifter, Knob and Aluminum Pedal Set
                  Suvlights HD Wiring Harness; Osram Night Breaker H4 Bulbs; Exide Edge AGM Battery
                  Summer: 5Zigen FN01R-C 16 x 7" Wheels; Yoko S.drive 205/45-16s
                  Winter: Enkei OR52 16 x 7" Wheels; Falken Ziex ZE-912 205/45-16s
                  Modified OEM Air Intake; Racing Beat Exhaust System; Techna-Fit SS Clutch Line
                  Denso SKJ16CR-L11 Extended Tip Spark Plugs; Magnecor Wires
                  Power Slot Front Brake Rotors; Techna-Fit SS Brake Lines; Hawk HPS Pads
                  Red Line Synthetic Engine Oil; C/S Aluminum Oil Cap
                  Cyberdyne Digital Gauges: Tach; Ambient Air Temp; Voltmeter

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