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Thread: WONT START - Car has no spark

  1. #1
    Registered User sexton's Avatar
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    Angry WONT START - Car has no spark

    Okay, I've got two different issues.

    1. No spark to spark plugs
    2. No power to fuel pump


    NO SPARK ISSUE:

    Simply put, the car has no spark. I tested this by pulling the spark plugs out and touching them to the block while it is cranking, the have nothing. I further tested this by placing a screwdriver in place of the spark plug and placing the SD close to the block while it was cranking and that too gave no spark. I even switched out the coil with another coil just to be certain, and still nothing. So my conclusion is that the coils are not receiving any signal.

    FUEL ISSUE:

    I have checked the fuel pump, by manually opening the fuel pump relay and the pump will turn on. So I know the fuel pump is good. But for some reason the relay isn't opening by itself. I have replaced this relay with 3 different relays and they all yield the same results (Non functioning, as if they are not receiving any signal to open). I did touch one of the prongs with a negatively charged test light and the relay opened and fuel pump kicked in, so I know that the relay is good.


    BACKGROUND INFO:

    I put a new (used) motor in the car, and tried starting it, car started but ran EXTREMELY rough (so bad that I never took it off the jackstand because it would not idle and would die if I let off the gas) and it would only run for seconds before dieing anyway. I started checking things and noticed that the fuel pump was not kicking in, must have kicked in a little in order to start the car, but probably not enough to keep it running properly. So there was issue NO.1

    I also noticed that the car barely cranked over, as if it was struggling to start. So I pulled the valve cover off to look at the camshaft markings to see if it was in time. Everything checked out fine, so I left it alone and put everything back together. Tested the starter, and it failed. So I replaced the starter, now it cranks very nicely the way it is supposed to. STILL NO FUEL.

    I tested the fuel pump, and it does work. I pulled the relay cover off and noticed that it is not functioning, so I replaced the relay and it still does nothing. I manually open the relay and the fuel pump kicks in, tried to start the car while I held the fuel pump relay open (Fuel pump working). Still nothing, checked the spark plugs and found that there is now no spark and that makes issue NO.2



    IN THE ATTACHMENTS:
    If the Red wire is coming from the ignition switch, the blue wires coming from the PCM, and the orange wire coming from the ground. What is that capacitor doing? And why does the A side of it connect to the ignition wire? While the wire coming directly from the ground is going to the B side, and also bypassing it completely and going to the B sides of the coils?

    If anybody can help explain this a little better, please do.
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  2. #2
    suspension mods intheworks FE3-323's Avatar
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    the compacitor is in line to help "assist" the coils. similarly to any other capacitor

    Have someone check while your cranking & find out what the ECU sends to the coils via blue line. it should be a small negative current if memory serves correct
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  3. #3
    Registered User sexton's Avatar
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    After doing more research on alldata, I did see that. I will check for the negative charge while cranking to see what happens this evening.

    But it would seem that it wouldn't be receiving that charge since I have replaced the coils with another set already.

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    What year is the car and what engine did you put into it (from what year?)

  5. #5
    Registered User sexton's Avatar
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    The car is a 2002 Protege ES MT, the motor is from a 2001 Protege with an AT, but the tranny shouldnt matter, I swapped flex plates and the crankshaft pulley. They were both FS-DE motors.

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    Don't know about the Pro but some engines won't enable the spark/fuel pump if there's no oil pressure detected.

    Both of your engines have the same coils? There was a switch from coil pack to coils on plugs and that can make a difference due to the gears on the camshafts and the cam sensor.

  7. #7
    Registered User sexton's Avatar
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    Both are coil on plug configuration. When I pulled the valve cover off, the oil dipstick tube came out, could that have anything to do with it? The only thing I can remember doing before the problem was taking tha valve cover off.

    And I neve thought of checking for oil pressure, I will definitely check this.

  8. #8
    Registered User sexton's Avatar
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    Okay, so I checked the "blue" wire coming from the PCM to the coil with the key on and here are the results.

    KEY OFF:
    B Post (Orange) : .0v
    C Post (Blue) : .0v
    A Post (Red) : .0v (I think, I will have to recheck this)

    KEY ON:
    B Post (Orange) : .05v
    C Post (Blue) : .01v
    A Post (Red) : 12v

    So there is a positive charge on all three posts for the coils, and this is both coils. When the key is off, the B and C posts read as a Ground when testing with the Test Light.

    After testing this, I checked the CSP and the CKP wiring and both were plugged in and in good condition as well as the sensors (Do not know exactly how to test resistance of the sensors). I also checked the knock sensor on the back of the block and this too is plugged in.

    So I am getting nowhere with this really, so now I checked about the fuel pump.




    SEE ATTACHED:
    32 : Fuel Pump Relay (Circuit Relay)
    31 : Main Relay

    So I have attached an image of the wiring for the FPR, and these are the results of this the tests I did.

    KEY OFF:
    R5 (Orange) : 0v
    R1 (Orange) : 0v
    R3 (Red) : Ground
    R2 (Blue) : Ground

    KEY ON:
    R5 (Orange) : 12v
    R1 (Orange) : 12v
    R3 (Red) : Ground
    R2 (Blue) : Ground

    R2 leads to a Violet wire on the back of the fuse block, when touching this wire to test it with a test light the FPR opens and the fuel pump kicks on.

    Please let me know what you all think
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  9. #9
    Senior Member 90prtege's Avatar
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    check your fuel fuse in the junction block under the hood on drivers side i was having the same issue with my probe zero fuel or spark the fuse had blown after a trans swap, i think there's something in the computer that senses if one doesn't work to kill the other ....i spent 3 days trying to figure out WTF happened to cause it after a trans swap you should hit key and vrrrmmmm but not this time
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  10. #10
    Registered User sexton's Avatar
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    I don't know that I have a "Fuel" fuse in that junction box? I can double check again, but I am pretty sure all the fuses are good. I have attached a diagram of that fuse box for you to see if you can see a "Fuel" fuse.

    In the diagram, the fuel pump relay is NO.32 but thats the only thing that I can see that relates to fuel.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member 90prtege's Avatar
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    im thinkin #10 might be the one i do know one of the med sized 30-40 amp maxi fuses is fuel related best bet take em all out one by one and do a test on (continuity test) them to make sure they are all working
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  12. #12
    Registered User sexton's Avatar
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    Sorry, but by continuity test you mean?

    I know if I take the fuse cap off and touch the metal inside that it does light up the test light.

  13. #13
    Senior Member 90prtege's Avatar
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    continuity test means take one lead to one side of fuse and other lead to the other side of the fuse..... your multimeter has a setting that when you touch the two leads together it beeps that's the easiest way to test functionality of the fuses
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  14. #14
    Registered User sexton's Avatar
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    Okay, yea I understand how to do that. Haven't done it to those fuses yet, but I can test them. Those fuses are so hard to pull out, so I've only pulled and checked like two of them.

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    i just skimmed the problem and the suggestions, but i didn't happen to see if you tested to see if you were getting a crank signal, a lot of no spark no fuel is the crank sensor, you'll have a little bit of fuel from turning the key on (primes the system) than no spark or fuel. I did read you had it going for a little bit, maybe loose sensor? or the wheel might not be positioned correctly, and it was just barely getting enough signal to fire the coil every once in a while? maybe the 2 engines had 2 different sensor setups...

    not saying this is your problem, but i hope it helps

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