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BP4W and VVT head AWD/FWD Intake Manifolds

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    BP4W and VVT head AWD/FWD Intake Manifolds

    First of all, this is not a group buy thread, yet, and nothing may ever come of this at all.

    I am eventually going to need two manifolds made to fit the bp4w and bp6d (vvt) heads in a fwd/awd transverse engine bay. I am considering approaching a place that would be possibly willing to do a small production run of these but before I do that I'd like to get an idea for how many people could and would realistically be able to buy one. They may even be able to do flow testing and or dyno testing of the manifold.

    This thread is not intended to discuss the benefits of these heads but I would like to get feed back on features people would like to see.

    For now I am seeing it as an all aluminum, medium runner length manifold, that can utilize a more common and larger throttle body. Ford 5.0 or something. Also, I'd personally like to see nice velocity stacks on the plenum.

    Thank you.
    Ian Boyd- Bellingham, WA (click vehicle to view)

    1988 BF GTX

    1990 x2 BG AWD Protege

    1991 Escort GT- SOLD

    1975 911 S Widebody 3.6 conversion

    2005 Corolla

    #2
    Interesting. I planned on modifying the flange to my GTR mani and adapting the 64mm skunk 2 throttle body for the miata. If you can come up with something that out flows the GTR mani, I'd be interested. I like the idea of velocity stacks in the plenum. Any way we can get proven equal flow to all runners like the GTR?
    Before you criticize someone, first try walking a mile in their shoes. Because then you'll be a mile away, and you'll have their shoes...

    Comment


      #3
      I started on a manifold for the Miata guys like a year ago, but never finished it. Right now it consists of half of a plenum, a base with flush velocity stacks, and a BP4W flange. The only reason I was making it for the Miata was that the runners are easy, just straight tubes. The one I made for my car with the bends was a pita and everything is so tight it's hard to guarantee that it'll fit in all cars (Festiva, E153 swap, etc.). Maybe a kit form with a finished plenum/flange and you'd be on your own for the runners would be an option.

      By medium runner length, do you have a length in mind?

      Also, what pricing are you looking at? There are only a few Miata guys who would pay to have a nice manifold and even fewer of us fwd guys.

      One thing that was holding me back from mass producing them is that a lot of people want flow numbers, and I can't provide those.

      --Ferdi
      If you can't differentiate between brake and break, you should go back to school
      -----
      Miscellaneous Pics of Turbo Protege Build
      Big Front Brake Install using Wilwood Calipers
      Factory Service Manuals and Familia Brochures - PDF

      Comment


        #4
        Kaleo- I've considered just adapting an existing manifold but really I feel it is a compromise. To do it right you need to make sure the angle of the Manis matches the angle of the intake port. After that you still only have the stock throttle body. also, the Gtr Manis good, especially for stock but it has a rather small plenum compared to most other aftermarket turbo plenums I see for similar displacement engines.

        Ferdi- true our engine arrangement provides a much more complex packaging arrangement. Runner length, I have no real idea on how to gauge what would be ideal but I'd be looking at trying to get more than just straight little stubs that connect to the manifold. I saw your build and I really like the way you did it.

        Pricing wise I'm thinking if we could get 15 manifolds made at once itd probably be in the $750 range. Looking to just get the two for my self from various fabricators I'm labeling quoted about $1100 for materials, throttle body and labor, that being said I was asking them to use cast plenum chambers with a removable "floor" this the velocity stacks were attached too. They would basically be fabbing and connecting the runners to the flange and plenum chamber.

        That being said typically the people who are gonna run these fancier heads are going to be using bigger turbos at higher boost levels. This is usually where you can really benefit from a good intake and cam shafts. Both of which our community is lacking.

        Time frame wise I wouldn't even consider getting this ball rolling till late in the year early next year. Mainly due to all the awesome group buys happening now.
        Ian Boyd- Bellingham, WA (click vehicle to view)

        1988 BF GTX

        1990 x2 BG AWD Protege

        1991 Escort GT- SOLD

        1975 911 S Widebody 3.6 conversion

        2005 Corolla

        Comment


          #5
          Links to places that provide parts that I Did/am considering using. Depending on If a group buy ever were to be up together or not:

          Fairly local to me and provide some really cool parts and services




          Plus there these guys



          What may end up happening is I'll mock up all the pieces for my first one, take notes and have it welded together. If it works well when I have my second one made I'll see if I can help get a few more made up in a sort of one time group buy.
          Ian Boyd- Bellingham, WA (click vehicle to view)

          1988 BF GTX

          1990 x2 BG AWD Protege

          1991 Escort GT- SOLD

          1975 911 S Widebody 3.6 conversion

          2005 Corolla

          Comment


            #6
            Late this year/early next year sounds like a good time frame to me. Like you said, all these great group buys that are going on now have drained my car funds account. I can start putting away 100 bucks a month and be ready when the GB starts.

            Ferdi, what kind of price range were you going to put your manifold at if you produced it? I know you can't provide flow numbers, but I have a lot of faith in your research/design/machining skills. I'd be willing to take a leap of faith. Do you have any pictures of the manifold you didn't finish?
            Before you criticize someone, first try walking a mile in their shoes. Because then you'll be a mile away, and you'll have their shoes...

            Comment


              #7
              In regards to ferdi, so do i!! If you were to pursue making these of course lol. I'd really like to see this happen eventually, even if I or someone else is leading the effort. I figured it wouldn't hurt to start the conversation though.
              Ian Boyd- Bellingham, WA (click vehicle to view)

              1988 BF GTX

              1990 x2 BG AWD Protege

              1991 Escort GT- SOLD

              1975 911 S Widebody 3.6 conversion

              2005 Corolla

              Comment


                #8
                Yeah Ian, thanks for bringing it up! I thought I would just settle with a modded GTR, but this has definitely piqued my interest in having one custom fabricated.
                Before you criticize someone, first try walking a mile in their shoes. Because then you'll be a mile away, and you'll have their shoes...

                Comment


                  #9
                  That the thing, if going through the trouble and expense of doing the head swap, why "settle" with a less than optimal intake?

                  Even if this dies off over the weekend I will periodically bump it for relevance and updates.
                  Ian Boyd- Bellingham, WA (click vehicle to view)

                  1988 BF GTX

                  1990 x2 BG AWD Protege

                  1991 Escort GT- SOLD

                  1975 911 S Widebody 3.6 conversion

                  2005 Corolla

                  Comment


                    #10
                    $750 range is something I could work with.

                    I would use the same flange that I used on my manifold. Gasket-matched with the ports angled to match the head. I've sold over 20 of these to guys building their own manifold.



                    The plenum base is machined out of a 1" thick bar and currently looks like this:





                    The plenum currently looks like this. Imagine it cut inside the blue tape. For a fwd, I think the 'snout' is too long and the angle of it is not good either. I really like that everything is rounded compared to the plenum on my car.



                    --Ferdi
                    If you can't differentiate between brake and break, you should go back to school
                    -----
                    Miscellaneous Pics of Turbo Protege Build
                    Big Front Brake Install using Wilwood Calipers
                    Factory Service Manuals and Familia Brochures - PDF

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Wow Ferdi, you never cease to amaze! I especially like the velocity stack design. As opposed to some I have seen where the horn sticks out inside the plenum.
                      Last edited by KaleoXtreme; 03-01-2013, 05:17 PM.
                      Before you criticize someone, first try walking a mile in their shoes. Because then you'll be a mile away, and you'll have their shoes...

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hey, if your offering up the opportunity to build these, I would love to have a member of our own community do it. Would I be able to send you back the flange I got from you to use? Lol. But seriously?

                        So far it all looks to be very nicely done. Do you have thoughts or plans for the runners? How much more clearance than stock would this need to the firewall?

                        Again my timeframe is a bit soft. I am just bought Jim's front bar, I am buying his rear bar, also picking up two tubular gt4 subframes from him, two sets of his ttls, getting in on a gb for rear sun visors and buying some Gtr spindles. So I'm gonna have to let the bank account recover for a few days at least lol.


                        Ferdi-Not to derail the thread but awhile back we discussed motor/tranny mounts for the gt4 conversion. I was able to pick up a transfer case, did you ever here from the guy who was gonna send you the empty transmission case? I also got the correct 4wd crossmember. Since then I have been sent off to Alaska, hoping to return home next month!!, but yah if your open to that still I'd love to participate
                        Ian Boyd- Bellingham, WA (click vehicle to view)

                        1988 BF GTX

                        1990 x2 BG AWD Protege

                        1991 Escort GT- SOLD

                        1975 911 S Widebody 3.6 conversion

                        2005 Corolla

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Lots of debates on how to do the velocity stacks - flush like these, slightly raised like a doughnut, or completely raised like the manifold on my car.

                          --Ferdi
                          If you can't differentiate between brake and break, you should go back to school
                          -----
                          Miscellaneous Pics of Turbo Protege Build
                          Big Front Brake Install using Wilwood Calipers
                          Factory Service Manuals and Familia Brochures - PDF

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Ferdi, what is the ID on the inlet?
                            Before you criticize someone, first try walking a mile in their shoes. Because then you'll be a mile away, and you'll have their shoes...

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Also, if I/we supplied out own throttle body flange would you be able to incorporate that?
                              Ian Boyd- Bellingham, WA (click vehicle to view)

                              1988 BF GTX

                              1990 x2 BG AWD Protege

                              1991 Escort GT- SOLD

                              1975 911 S Widebody 3.6 conversion

                              2005 Corolla

                              Comment

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