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I need some help (Z5 Issues)

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    I need some help (Z5 Issues)

    I guess I'd like to start by apologizing about this mess of a post, its midnight and I just want to get this up here asap, so I can get some responses.

    Had my 96 protege for about a year now, and about 6 months ago, it started having "Issues".

    Not the kind of thing where I'd be worried if I'll make it home, just little problems that have poped up and I've dumped money into with no luck.

    Anytime the car was idling, it'd have a really profound miss, sometimes rythmic, sometimes not. It progressed to the point where it started giving me P0304 (cylinder 4 missfire) codes. I replaced my plugs, wires, distributer cap and rotor, and it did nothing. I replaced the cylinder 4 injector, and the idle was alot more smooth and the code no longer showed up.

    It still wasn't perfect so I went on to replace the fuel filter, I also swapped out the FPR with one from the junkyard. Also tried a junkyard distributor, and I noticed no difference.

    Now when the car is idling when fully warmed up, sometimes it'll sound almost absolutely normal. The car vibrates much more than it used to, it's still not running smooth, but when hot (at times) it'll sound almost perfect, no huge POOF POOF misses from the exhaust, just a bit of a lopey rythm, but not enough to cause vacuum or rpm fluctuations.

    Other times it'll be nice and hot, and have the same misses it does when just started, which brings me to the next issue. I start the car, and when I let off the starter, it stumbles on itself just barely staying running for 30 seconds or so, then the idle will shoot up to 2k and slowly lower like normal. And during this whole time, until it is up to normal temperature, the engine will have very little power. And will feel and also sound very labored, but only until it is up to normal operating temperature.

    The duration which the car stumbles after being started, is proportional to how long the car has sat not running. I don't think this is a fuel pump issue, as I've left the key on for about a minute, turned it on and off a few times, then started it, only to have the same thing happen. I suppose this may be a leaky injector.

    I should also notice that even if the car is fully warmed up, and its one of those times its running almost perfectly, if i shut it off and start it right back up, sometimes it'll have the miss again, until i drive it around some.

    For some odd reason when my cooling fan kicks in (and it seems I cannot reproduce this by turning on other things) that the idle will stabilize a little bit if its just warm and missing. And it seems the higher the rpms the less noticeable the miss is, like 900rpm will sound almost perfect, but 800 (where it usually settles to) is not so hot.

    I've left the car idling and touched the EGR valve (said to be how you test if its failed or not by if its hot) and it was not hot, so I do not believe my EGR is leaking exhaust gases when its not supposed to.

    I've taken "Extremely Flammable" TB cleaner and completely dousted every vacuum line and inch of the intake manifold I could see and not once did I hear the RPM increase. I was actually surprised by this and sprayed a BUNCH on the air filter, and to my surprise it didn't raise the rpm at all that I could tell, so perhaps my vacuum test is not valid.

    One interesting thing to note is that if I unplug (IIRC) one of the middle two injectors, the engine will stall, however if I unplug cylinder 1 or 4, it'll barely change its tone at idle (but will show heavy missing when reved). Keep in mind I did replace the cylinder 4 injector and used a NOID light on all of the plugs and found them all to be working.

    Also must add that if you just slightly rev the engine, from a cold start (when it sounds labored) and you let it settle back down, just as it settles to the idle rpm, you'll hear a little "bla bla bla" from the intake. That little misfire you hear from the intake is always in a group of three from what I've been able to hear, so I'm wondering if this is a valvetrain issue.

    I'd like to say that I have been using the really expensive Bosch oil filters as well as Pennzoil Platinum Fully Senthetic Oil and it is not due for an oil change, nor is it low on oil.

    I'm totally stuck here, and after 6 months I'm tired of having to let my car warm up, in 90 degree weather, just so it doesnt sound like it's dieing after I start it. I do believe that since this fiasco started, it did loose a little power and a few MPG's (I'm now getting 27-29MPG usually).

    I'm just looking for any and all suggestions, I'll buy whatever I have to, try whatever I have to, I just want it to work. I should mention though that this is my daily, so I'm not going to attempt any lengthy repairs.
    Last edited by Protege_Driver; 06-25-2015, 11:22 PM.
    96 Protege LX 1.5L
    ~99,000Miles
    Automatic Transmission
    Custom Aluminum CAI - Thrush Welded Muffler - 2002 Protege Spoiler - 98 Protege Tail-Lights - Civic Lip - MX-3 Front Seats - 14" Proline Wheels

    #2
    Replace the ECU coolant sensor. Its the two wire plug on the coolant neck IIRC.

    I don't think that EGR test is very logical.And the EGR system on the BH and BJ is rather rubbish. Do the actual shop manual test on it.


    Swap all your injectors around. Make sure the plugs have good electrical contact on the injectors.

    You didn't list compression numbers, I'd guess you didn't do one. Do one cold and one hot. You might have a **** cylinder.
    Beater=/= Sleeper

    Originally posted by kozzman555
    kitty, you are a hilarious woman
    Originally posted by HopelessCow
    there is one thing i dunno what is that call,a thing look like a gun, u press the button and stick to the metal and it makes firework, do i need that thing?and what s the philip head screw drivers?
    Using Linux for anything serious besides server or software dev is like using a tin can and a string for telecommunications.

    Comment


      #3
      After reading your post I went to Advance Auto and took the last coolant sensor they had in stock. I made sure it was the one for the ECU and not the Gauge, then installed it. I notice it has actually made the miss more profound, as it was when it first started to miss.

      I'm thinking that maybe my old one just recently went bad, and thats why the misses are now how they were 6 months ago. To explain better, upon startup, it still misses (as profound as when they first started), but after a short (but hard) drive, it'll idle almost perfectly.


      I'm also very pleased to report I'm almost certian this made a noticeable increase in power. Sometimes its hard for me to discern whether its placebo or not, but I'm almost certian it gave me back all the power I'd slowly lost over the last few months. I did measure a tiny bit better 0-60 time.

      I'll purchase a handheld vacuum pump and do the recommended EGR test sometime soon.

      I'm strongly thinking of just buying three more re-man'd injectors to go along with the one I already put in (in cylinder 4), instead of messing around swapping them. I'm also fairly certian they are making good connection as the noid lights all light up when plugged in, and disconnecting and reconnecting each of the injectors repeatedly doesn't change anything.

      Yeah I've never done a compression test on it yet, I'm going to borrow a tester from a friend sometime this week (hopefully) and I'll get you your results then.

      You've made my little protege fun to drive again, and given me hope that a fix could be more viable than I thought!

      Thank you so much for your help though, I really do appreciate it, I never would have remembered how important a $20 temp sensor could be, and the results from replacing it is amazing!
      Last edited by Protege_Driver; 06-26-2015, 06:59 PM.
      96 Protege LX 1.5L
      ~99,000Miles
      Automatic Transmission
      Custom Aluminum CAI - Thrush Welded Muffler - 2002 Protege Spoiler - 98 Protege Tail-Lights - Civic Lip - MX-3 Front Seats - 14" Proline Wheels

      Comment


        #4
        Alright well I finally did a compression test, both wet and dry when cold, and this is after 8x cranks (I found only 5x cranks produced inconsistent results).

        Correct me if I'm wrong but this means my valves for cylinders 1 and 4 are burnt, bent, or not sealing correctly. Depending on whether or not my friend has a leak down tester, I may perform a leak down test on the bad cylinders.

        Compression in PSI
        Cyl 1 2 3 4
        DRY 80 155 145 90
        WET 90 165 170 95

        I'm willing to replace my head myself, I'm just not sure of how exactly I'll do it without having to take this car off the road for more than a weekend. I suppose that if I want the head properly rebuilt I'll have to get a junkyard head and get that rebuilt and then swap it with mine after its been rebuilt.
        Last edited by Protege_Driver; 08-02-2015, 11:26 PM.
        96 Protege LX 1.5L
        ~99,000Miles
        Automatic Transmission
        Custom Aluminum CAI - Thrush Welded Muffler - 2002 Protege Spoiler - 98 Protege Tail-Lights - Civic Lip - MX-3 Front Seats - 14" Proline Wheels

        Comment


          #5
          I wouldn't bother with head work with number that low. You've got ring issues as well due to the excessive jump on three.

          Pick up a junkyard Z5 for a few hundred bucks that you can compression test beforehand. Replace the external seals and T-belt and swap it out in a weekend. Pull the motor out on the BHA is about the same difficulty level as pulling the head in the engine bay. The only time consuming part is dependent upon how many accessories you still have in the engine bay.

          You'll come out a head over machine shop cost and you'll have a spare long block you can rebuild if you really want to. Or $20 worth of scrap.
          Beater=/= Sleeper

          Originally posted by kozzman555
          kitty, you are a hilarious woman
          Originally posted by HopelessCow
          there is one thing i dunno what is that call,a thing look like a gun, u press the button and stick to the metal and it makes firework, do i need that thing?and what s the philip head screw drivers?
          Using Linux for anything serious besides server or software dev is like using a tin can and a string for telecommunications.

          Comment


            #6
            It's possible that the numbers may be slightly off, I was rushing the tests. Even if the rings aren't the best, I'm not really confident in my ability to change a whole engine. I'd have to borrow a whole bunch of stuff (engine hoist etc) and have a whole lot of cash. I'd have to ask all kinds of favors from people to help me grab an engine, and take it home.

            I literally don't know the first thing about what to do with the tranny during the process of swapping the engine, I wouldn't know how to disconnect the axles or anything, I think I'd be in way over my head, and way over budget.

            I think my biggest problem would be the fact that I simply do not have the space to tear down a junkyard engine and go through it with a fine toothed comb like I'd like to.

            This is not looking good at all.
            96 Protege LX 1.5L
            ~99,000Miles
            Automatic Transmission
            Custom Aluminum CAI - Thrush Welded Muffler - 2002 Protege Spoiler - 98 Protege Tail-Lights - Civic Lip - MX-3 Front Seats - 14" Proline Wheels

            Comment

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