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    KJ-ZEM Protege5

    Hey guys i wanna no if any1 has ever put a kj in a protege???

    "Oh no! Not another one of /those/ threads!"

    Yep - it is.

    With that nonsense out of the way, let's get on to the real reason we're here: A KJ-ZEM BJ chassis build thread.

    I'm new to the forum, as this is only my second post, but not new to the BJ platform. So, "Hello".

    I'm going to jump right on to answer the first and probably immediate question that will be proposed.

    Why? Yes, we all know the KL is a better option. It's a powerhouse with tons of aftermarket support. The FS can be, too. Hell, as a numerous-time Miata owner, I recognize the BP can be also. But no, I don't want regular, and I don't want power. Well I do, of course, but not big numbers. I have other cars for that.

    What this swap is really about is efficient power. The Miller Cycle is no slouch by comparison with a stock KLDE or even a ZE. More importantly, it's efficient; The Miller Cycle, by design, is efficient at cruise and has torque and power on demand thanks to the Lysholm compressor (read: supercharger).

    This probably isn't new information to most of you but a quick synopsis helps establish why I'm going through with this...honestly, hell. The ultimate goal of this build is to have a zippy daily that can meet demands between utility, comfort, power, and efficiency.

    The Donor:

    A 2000 Millenia S, Millennium Edition. 131k, roughly. Runs and Drives, picked up for $800. Numerous CELs, all centered around a faulty MAP sensor.

    The Recipient:

    2003 Protege5

    Been an incredibly good car with surprisingly zero of the issues this engine is known for. Never mind, though. The engine's out and I'm ready for new heights.

    Disclaimers:

    For anyone following along, let me be clear up front: This is not a weekend build. This isn't even a one or two week build. This will probably span months, just for the initial drop in and start up. The amount of research that has gone into this swap precedes my membership here by months, almost a year actually. Admittedly, most of the stuff precursory to commitment was worked out early on and the nitty-gritty details have been within the last few weeks.

    Credits:

    I would like to be the first to throw out two big thumbs-up to Chris and Darren (Damkid and DuRWooD) for the inspiration, and more specifically, Chris for corresponding with me about the details of his iteration, sparing me probably days of figuring, guesswork, and anxiety. He's the real pioneer here. There have also been many others with very useful insight regarding the intricacies of compatibility between these platforms, as well as critical information about the KJ, itself. With no actual hands-on, it was nice to have a peek into the problem spots so I could prepare accordingly.. To you's guys: Thanks, you know who you are if you're reading this!

    Without further adieu,
    The Swap:

    For those who followed Damkid's KL to KJ conversion thread, you saw the nightmare that was the Millenia's ECU and TCM. A tangled web of sensors, codes, vacuum, and more codes. Did I mention codes? Yeah, the ECU loves throwing codes out for no apparent reason other than every day ends with a Y. Multiple that by sixty eight when you take its good buddy, the TCM, away.

    None of that, here. Nope. None. This build, from the start, was planned with MS3x in mind. I've done multiple installs on my and other Miatas and have a fairly in depth understanding of the EMS so it was an easy choice. This, of course, will forego the simplicity that OBD2 offers for diagnostics, as well as the ability to have the vehicle emissions tested which fortunately, I don't need to anyways.

    This will not be a crude implementation, however. Not a minimalist approach of "what can I remove and still have it run". That would completely defeat the purpose of my swap. There will be omissions, such as the EGR and related vacuum for example. But, every original function such as ABV, CAC, PRC, bypass air, etc will be implemented and their operation will be a direct clone of the OEM implementation. As an added bonus, this will be a fully sequential fuel and spark install. It goes further: Power steering, A/C, and cruise will also be retained.

    Whew, that was a lengthy introductory!
    Questions and comments welcomed, otherwise: enjoy!

    Tonight's itinerary:

    Finishing wiring schematics for the MS3x install. I'll probably end up making an excel sheet or similar detailing the sensor, wire colors**, and their corresponding connections on the MS3/x DB37 harnesses. This will probably also include information about wiring and sensors that will remain "factory", the VSS for example.

    **(for Protege5 year 2003, for Millenia year 2000, MS3x board 3.57 with DIYAT MS3 and MS3x DB37 harnesses. I can not guarantee the wire colors of any models outside these year ranges, though the likelihood of them changing within their respective generations is slim. Anyone attempting this swap MUST confirm the wiring against what is seen here)
    Slowtegay - 03 Sunlight Silver MP5 - KJ Swap in the works.

    #2
    Nice! I have been waiting for this and now my old transmission will be put to good use.
    92 Mazda MX3 GS> For sale, $1750 OBO
    94 Escort wagon--BP swap coming, VF10 Turbo, COP, EVO ECU, 03 ZX2 front end conversion
    "Hold yourself accountable before you are held accountable"
    EV14 330cc@3Bar injector kits available.
    EV14 GT500 injector kits available for the BP. 610cc@3Bar.
    EV14 925cc@3Bar injector kits available
    BP Forged H beam rods available now
    KL Forged H beam rods available now
    K8/KF Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
    FS Forged H beam rods
    awaiting test fit
    F2 Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
    FE3 Forged H beam rods coming soon
    Mitsubishi 3.8 MIVEC rods coming soon
    Aluminum CAS/Distributor caps
    BP oil jet eliminators
    EV14 fuel rail spacers
    More stuff coming soon.......

    Comment


      #3
      Very nice, I look forward to the progress! *subscribed*
      Clint/1999 "Sport20"

      Comment


        #4
        Cool. Looking forward to seeing this. Last one I saw was Durwood's car
        91 protege gt. dropzone mx3 springs, mx3 crossmember, ractive front and rear strut braces, rear lower mx3 brace, 4 wheel disc brakes, corksport ss brake and clutch lines,kvr front pads, ractive cai,ram air hood scoop, modified front bumper, shaved ant and rear trunk lock, fubu ant, short shifter, corksport bronzeoil shifter bushings,92 glass sunroof and tail lights, mx3 center console, autometer gauges (volt and oil pressure) cluster needles painted to match, sound system, 17 inch eagle alloy 193 with 205 40 17 rubber. klze is ALIVE BABY!! . http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2394656http://www.toprotege.com/forums/show...hlight=project[url]

        Comment


          #5
          subbed- despite my hate for the mazda K series lineup... I do like quality work
          ---Has ClubProtege helped you in someway? show your support by Contributing--- Click Here---

          1992- project FE3..... 313 WHP @ 9.3psi




          I pet my dash when I get into the car..."good car"
          he actually has a mazda tree, parts grow on it

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by 300zxrb26dett View Post
            Nice! I have been waiting for this and now my old transmission will be put to good use.
            Yessir! Though I won't be using it just yet. First install will be on a junkyard pull G25. Once the swap is in and good, I'll pull it back out for a rebuild and swap the LSD and casing. I'll probably be hitting you up about a set of S injectors, also. This set only has 131 but I'd like to have a good set in for the rebuild, anyways - As much work as it'll be to change them!

            Originally posted by progt91 View Post
            Cool. Looking forward to seeing this. Last one I saw was Durwood's car
            Pretty much where the inspiration came from. I had known about this engine when I had a mx-3 GS years ago, but a KL swap was much easier. This was also before I had the experience, know-how, or wallet to bring my crazy engine swap dreams to reality.

            I lost a bit of time tonight on the wiring diagrams because I had to diagnose and change an alternator on one of my Miatas. Nevertheless, progress is being made. It occurred to me that I'll need to be making a sort of "QDC" interface for the engine. I don't foresee it needing to come out often, but I'd rather it be easy when it does. With that in mind, I'll be using existing pigtails from the milly, spliced to (probably) dashboard block connectors with an appropriate number of wires and gauges. The other side of the block connector will go to the MS and tie in with any part of the original FS harness I'm saving which is looking like VSS, OPS, Starter, alternator, RPS, and NPS. There may be more i'm forgetting right now.

            These connectors will mount up near the firewall and save me the effort of unplugging all the bull**** this engine has if/when it has to come out. Stay tuned for some form of preliminary wiring schematic. I'm hesitant to upload anything until I have concrete wiring diagrams that have been checked twice or thrice; I'd rather not spread misinformation on a subject that, as far as I know, has only ever been done once before.

            With regards to physical process, the donor Millenia goes up on stands this Saturday. I need to prepare workspace in the garage and pressure wash the concrete pad as the last two or three projects have not been kind.
            Slowtegay - 03 Sunlight Silver MP5 - KJ Swap in the works.

            Comment


              #7
              Hmm...working on input and output systems right now. Using an adaptive idle or a high ignition column instead of trying to let the PWM IACV chase the power steering load. MS3x has idle-up as well as control options for A/C. I just have to decide if I want the compressor to be active full time or do I incorporate the high pressure switch to keep it running less? The former is quite easy, the latter requires wiring in the factory ECU to control the A/C. For as little as A/C is used, I reckon I'll keep it full time for right now. I'd have to make an adapter harness to get the ECU going without all of the other pins. On the other hand, I may do that with a DIYBOB anyways as that will let me tie into any factory wiring from the ECU side without cutting up the harness. There will obviously be some irreversible modifications to the engine bay wiring but I'd really like to keep as much factory in the interior as possible.

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              EDIT: Decision made. I don't often use A/C, but it's typically when I'm on a road trip and I'd rather not:
              - Inconvenience myself by having to consciously turn on or off the compressor
              - lose fuel economy by leaving the compressor on in full time.

              There's nothing in my investigation thus far to suggest the A/C amplifier has any input from the IGF for idle threshold or VSS input for speed threshold. Hell, there doesn't even appear to be a WOT shutoff. It's possible that this is managed by the ECU. Question is: What will it do without any IGF or VSS signal. I suppose those signals could be duplicated though the FS ECU would have no idea what to do with 6x analog IGF inputs.
              Last edited by xYoko; 02-19-2016, 12:55 AM.
              Slowtegay - 03 Sunlight Silver MP5 - KJ Swap in the works.

              Comment


                #8
                Well the the pressure switches would be the easy answer. The A/C compressor would be controlled by your high pressure and low pressure switches and allows the function to be automatic without you having to shut the button off and since it seems like you don't know the A/C compressor would die in short order if it just ran continually without any way to regulate the pressure. Would kind of A/C system does the P5 utilize? Orifice tube or expansion valve?

                Pretty sure the Millenia used and expansion valve.
                92 Mazda MX3 GS> For sale, $1750 OBO
                94 Escort wagon--BP swap coming, VF10 Turbo, COP, EVO ECU, 03 ZX2 front end conversion
                "Hold yourself accountable before you are held accountable"
                EV14 330cc@3Bar injector kits available.
                EV14 GT500 injector kits available for the BP. 610cc@3Bar.
                EV14 925cc@3Bar injector kits available
                BP Forged H beam rods available now
                KL Forged H beam rods available now
                K8/KF Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
                FS Forged H beam rods
                awaiting test fit
                F2 Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
                FE3 Forged H beam rods coming soon
                Mitsubishi 3.8 MIVEC rods coming soon
                Aluminum CAS/Distributor caps
                BP oil jet eliminators
                EV14 fuel rail spacers
                More stuff coming soon.......

                Comment


                  #9
                  That's kinda what I thought, looking back. Admittedly, it was late

                  However, the wiring schematic doesn't suggest that there's any interrupt between the switch and power for the clutch from the relay. The ECU takes information from the switches and cycles the compressor, or at least it looks like it.

                  To be honest, though, I've no idea what type either uses. My P5's A/C never worked and I never bothered to fix it. I've very little working A/C experience so any input is appreciated.

                  The problem with MS3x for A/C control is that is has the isle up input (from the A/C switch on HVAC) and an output for the clutch (relay SW). That would mean when the SW is powered, the compressor would run full time and that's obviously a no-go.
                  Slowtegay - 03 Sunlight Silver MP5 - KJ Swap in the works.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Just took a crash course on A/C. For my purposes, I don't believe I'll need to investigate which it uses, though it may be handy to know. Since either type of orifice are at the evaporator core which will remain the same on the p5. My end goal will be to have the KJ compressor mated with the existing p5 high side and low side lines, possibly needing new lines manufactured. I have a source for this, though.
                    Slowtegay - 03 Sunlight Silver MP5 - KJ Swap in the works.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Yes your right the ECU is very likely what controls the compressor clutch on the Millenia based on the input from the pressure switches. In your case and the simplest way is that you wire the high and low pressure switches in a way that either of them can cut power to the compressor clutch. This is pretty much the way in which the A/C is controlled on any BP powered BG car. If the P5 has an expansion valve system then just adapt the lines to the Millenia compressor and use your existing pressure switches, and if for some reason it has an orifice tube setup (which I doubt) just replace the tube with a new one since it will likely be full of garbage and adapt the lines to the millenia compressor and use the existing pressure switches.
                      92 Mazda MX3 GS> For sale, $1750 OBO
                      94 Escort wagon--BP swap coming, VF10 Turbo, COP, EVO ECU, 03 ZX2 front end conversion
                      "Hold yourself accountable before you are held accountable"
                      EV14 330cc@3Bar injector kits available.
                      EV14 GT500 injector kits available for the BP. 610cc@3Bar.
                      EV14 925cc@3Bar injector kits available
                      BP Forged H beam rods available now
                      KL Forged H beam rods available now
                      K8/KF Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
                      FS Forged H beam rods
                      awaiting test fit
                      F2 Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
                      FE3 Forged H beam rods coming soon
                      Mitsubishi 3.8 MIVEC rods coming soon
                      Aluminum CAS/Distributor caps
                      BP oil jet eliminators
                      EV14 fuel rail spacers
                      More stuff coming soon.......

                      Comment


                        #12
                        A/C switch----A/C relay-----Hi Pressure switch-----Lo Pressure switch---------A/C compressor clutch. Done
                        Idle up signal to the MS3X can be the factory trigger wire on your HVAC controls or wherever it is normally taken from on the P5.

                        Also you will have to figure out a way to make sure the cooling fans activate when your A/C comes on. This is not that difficult either though.
                        92 Mazda MX3 GS> For sale, $1750 OBO
                        94 Escort wagon--BP swap coming, VF10 Turbo, COP, EVO ECU, 03 ZX2 front end conversion
                        "Hold yourself accountable before you are held accountable"
                        EV14 330cc@3Bar injector kits available.
                        EV14 GT500 injector kits available for the BP. 610cc@3Bar.
                        EV14 925cc@3Bar injector kits available
                        BP Forged H beam rods available now
                        KL Forged H beam rods available now
                        K8/KF Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
                        FS Forged H beam rods
                        awaiting test fit
                        F2 Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
                        FE3 Forged H beam rods coming soon
                        Mitsubishi 3.8 MIVEC rods coming soon
                        Aluminum CAS/Distributor caps
                        BP oil jet eliminators
                        EV14 fuel rail spacers
                        More stuff coming soon.......

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Using the output for both relay and fan was my intention. Are these switches grounded under low pressure or high pressure? I guess I could do some back probing on another car here with working A/C. I only see one switch (high pressure side) in the diagrams which covers the entire A/C circuit.
                          Slowtegay - 03 Sunlight Silver MP5 - KJ Swap in the works.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Also, stay tuned for updates on the donor tonight. The engine came out yesterday and the donor is back on it's wheels. Anybody need millennium edition parts?
                            Slowtegay - 03 Sunlight Silver MP5 - KJ Swap in the works.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              So, for anyone looking to do this themselves later on, quit now. Quit while you're ahead. Pulling the engine out of the Milly is quite an experience. One I hope i'll never have to experience again. Ever.

                              I jest; it wasn't quite that bad. All in all, as a first time pull (rusty bolts and all) as well as a first time pulling a KJ for me, it took 5.5 hours from jacking up to having it ready to set down (I need the chassis to roll away to scrap).

                              Anyways, on with pictures of progress and notes.

                              The last time this car would ever move on its own power. A sad day for the Millennium Edition...

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                              Yes, a "faulty" map sensor. The vacuum truly is the largest downfall of this engine. Well, that and the lysholm compressor.

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                              Junkyard style. I needed to keep as much as the factory wiring as possible to minimize the need for splicing. I'll be inspecting nearly every inch for brittle wire and replacing as necessary. I suspect there will be a lot. If I thought I could source these connectors from DigiKey without selling my left testicle, I'd be pinning all new connectors.

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                              Out she comes.

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                              On the hoist, beginning to break the engine down for reconditioning.

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                              No friggen surprise, the CAC actuator nipple broke off while I was removing the manifold. So I went to the junkyard where I happened to know there was an untouched Milly S. That actuator broke while I was trying to remove it also...an hour's work wasted. I did get a new engine cover, though, since mine broke on it's way off the engine. Mazda, of course wants $450+ for the actuator. I'm not of the mind that this one isn't working so I'm going to drill and tap it for a 90* brass 1/8-NPT 1/4 ID barb. I'll be sure to detail that process when I do it.

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                              While I was at the yard, I got some of the things off my list I could grab quickly. That happened to be block connectors from a Protege dashboard that someone had generously pulled for me already. How nice of them.

                              Yes, this photo is also a shameless attempt to show off my K8 engine table.

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                              That sums up yesterday's progress.

                              I got caught up doing some errands today (and fixing a shifter cable on an Envoy in the pouring rain :yay: ). That did not prevent progress upon my return home, however. Broke down all of the wiring and vacuum today so I could start fabricating the harness and getting new silicon vacuum hose on order for EVERYTHING. I mean EVERY inch of hose on this engine is going to be silicon. If I can find silicon radiator hoses, I'd be even happier. Also will look into replacing the two CAC couplers with silicon since the rubber ones I have a looking pretty tired.

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                              Last but surely not least, the wiring harness (which break down into four separate harnesses from the factory). I have these inside with me and will be working on taking them apart, inspecting the wiring as well as verifying the wiring colors against what my (still in progress but nearly done) conversion diagrams show.

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                              Hopefully should have some measurable progress on the wiring harness and conversion diagrams for MS3x within the coming week. Supposedly there's gonna be a snow storm so that should give me some indoor time (I can't stand the feeling of not working in the garage during the day).
                              Last edited by xYoko; 02-21-2016, 08:01 PM.
                              Slowtegay - 03 Sunlight Silver MP5 - KJ Swap in the works.

                              Comment

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