Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

KJ-ZEM Protege5

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    Worked on wiring more last night, working on the quick disconnect wiring right now. Engine side is done, working on car side so I can get the MS wired in. Also cross referenced the bearing this morning.

    Timken diseña y fabrica rodamientos y productos de transmisión de potencia mecánica. Utilizamos nuestro conocimiento para ayudar a las industrias globales a operar de manera más eficiente.


    Found a Timken 203FF in the cross reference sheet linked above. Both show as a clutch pilot bearing. I'll give it a shot and let everyone know how it goes.

    The existing bearing OD mics out at 1.574". Don't have my caliper set right now so I can't run the ID. Which I might add was a bit of a loose fit on both tensioners anyways.

    Also on today's list: Doing some stim testing on the MS with various solenoids and sensors to ensure proper function before the final install. Also to make sure my parameters and channels for stuff like ABV, CAC, and PRC are correct. I've considered wiring up a dummy LED to each circuit for the initial install to verify them real-time.
    Slowtegay - 03 Sunlight Silver MP5 - KJ Swap in the works.

    Comment


      #32
      What a beautiful day it was in Northern Virginia...Drew up a bunch of charts late last night which I'm not going to share until the MS is installed, to make sure there is no misinformation. I was doing implementation today, however.

      Nothing says commitment like shaving two pounds of wiring from the engine bay

      I somehow managed to not snap a picture before I packed up and put the hood on for the night. The last picture is close but I have all of the wiring routed and ready for the "QDCs" to be wired in, roughly located. All of the wiring is labelled in the bay and everything except internal communications (gauge cluster, fuel pump, etc) is labelled and ready for the MS3 and MS3x harnesses in the passenger footwell. I was really tempted to get a EEC-V DIYBOB (break-out box) so I didn't make any permanent changes to the ECU harness but, to be honest, the last Megasquirt BOB install I did went poorly as the resistance of the three additional connection points caused an oddity with sync (sync losses). On top of all that, I made some pretty damn permanent changes in the engine bay anyways. This chassis will forever be committed to a KJ or KL unless some major rewiring is done or another engine, relay box, and fuse box harness are sourced.

      It may be disappointing to some following this build that I'm not stripping the bay and painting or "tucking" the wiring. Cleanliness is important, but not nearly as important as practicality to me. Megasquirt installs are buggy, at best, on their first go-around. If anything has to be mended or altered, I'd rather not be chasing it through fender wells, or behind the dashboard.

      There is going to be a rust repair in the passenger fender well, however. There's quite a large hole right about where the secondary support for the motor mount is. I'll detail that when I get to it. When the engine comes back out for the rebuild (after it's been thoroughly tuned during its first installation), I'll be cleaning the bay and painting it at that time (think 6-7 months).

      The wiring modifications were fairly straight forward. In order to keep the grommet through the firewall populated (to keep moisture out), I used sections of the factory wiring between the ECU plug and their respective locations on the engine. Labeling both ends and testing continuity to make sure the labels were correct. At the ECU side, splices will be made to their respective locations on the MS3, MS3x, or cross-over to another ECU pin, mostly outbound to the cluster (for a factory-style implementation). At the car side, I have diagrams of the three plugs I'll be using which will cover the entire engine harness. Some of these wires come from the ECU, some from the fuse panel under the dash, some from the relay box. I did NOT opt to make the Starter, Alternator, RPS, or VSS a quick disconnect. These objects are easy enough to access to not warrant the additional pinning or large gauge wire. I did re-route the Oil pressure sender wire to the one of the QDCs, though. I have an AEM OPS I'll be using with this but I'll also be running the "dummy" light which is a simple +12 from the relay panel, activating the indicator in the cluster when the sensor grounds to the block (presumably below 5psi). Again, I'm stressing the "factory-style" implementation for ease of daily operation/peace of mind. The gauges - OP, vac/boost, WT will be located below a single DIN radio as I do not want them to be a focal point. I really don't want this car to feel "full blown racecar"; I have enough of those.

      Anyways, on to the pictures that don't say much.

      Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160228_173115.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	93.5 KB
ID:	1241886

      Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160228_173107.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	129.3 KB
ID:	1241887

      Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160228_173059.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	82.0 KB
ID:	1241888
      Slowtegay - 03 Sunlight Silver MP5 - KJ Swap in the works.

      Comment


        #33
        Things are slowing down a bit right now as work is picking up, so don't be surprised when the updates get sparse.

        That said, leaps and bounds were made this weekend, kicking off with a junkyard run and tapering off to the last of the wiring charts.

        Lined up a junkyard trip with a good buddy of mine who wanted to fetch another BP for his collection (something like 6 or 7 extra BP's in his rivaling my collection of only four). Anyways, saw that as a good opportunity to get the G25m I needed as well as the other odds and ends like the shifter linkage, transmission mount brackets, exhaust manifold(s), collector pipe, and KL01 flywheel. All sourced from a 98-02 KLG4 626 5 speed.

        Also made some enlightening and crushing developments this weekend. Let's do some good news first: It LOOKS - I'm gonna say LOOKS - like the A/C will bolt straight up, no custom lines needed. The high and low pressure side lines are the correct size, and approximately offset for the KJ's A/C compressor. I won't be able to tell for certain if the lines are long enough until I begin the fitment phase for engine mounts and clearances which will be soon, anyways. I'd have to say, though, that it's looking good on that front.

        More good news: The power steering looks like a simple fix. I have the high pressure line from the Millenia, which has a female flare (3/8, I think) FIXED that unions to a LOOSE male nut from the rack (via short line that comes from the pinion housing). The FS is the exact opposite where the high pressure line has a fixed Male flare and loose female nut on the high pressure side. Though, as I understand it, the KL swap crowd uses the factory protege5 line and just runs the slack up behind the fender well. I would entertain this idea if I wasn't going to have part of the cruise control stuff there. Simple fix: Cut the loose male fitting from the line on the millenia rack and cut the fixed female nut from the line on the protege rack. Install the male nut onto the protege line and flare the end, use the factory Millenia/KJ line to the PS.

        Other, slightly less good, news. I have both factory KL01 (also stamped K8, interestingly) exhaust manifolds. EGR is not going to be apart of my build, so the hole will be plugged or welded shut, plug availability pending. As Chris originally determined, the factory KJ manifolds interfere with the Protege power steering rack, so those are a no-go. The KL manifolds are NEARLY identical to the KJ, save for the lower-center bolt on both the left and right hand banks. I've been mulling this over since I looked at it this afternoon and had only one thought: Drill and tap the head. The gasket is actually slotted to work with either the KJ or KL manifold bolt pattern, which I find interesting - Probably just for ease of production between the two engines, easier to just make one gasket for both engines, right? Unfortunately because the casting is already so thin on the manifold, drilling the hole for the existing pattern on the KJ head is unlikely to be a successful option. I'm fairly confident I won't breach a galley if I drill it, given where the bolt is already located on it. I may also simply leave it undone and hope that the manifold(s) don't leak with only two bolts (one at each "corner") holding it on the bottom, and four at the top. If I end up going to an aftermarket header and collector, I'll probably be able to re drill the flanges.

        Okay, on to bad news: The KJ-FS hybrid intermediate shaft was not a success. As all of the reading suggested, the ATX has a slightly different output location for the axle in comparison with a MTX. The shaft, though the same length as a KL, was at an improper angle exiting the transmission and would not allow the carrier bracket to align with the KJ block. So, it looks like I'll be experimenting on the two and three bolt KL 5 speed carrier brackets. The FS bracket doesn't look very promising.

        Lastly, a known issue but still one, nonetheless. The KL and KJ block are quite similar but one was never intended to be used with a MTX. The G25m 5 speed has been shown many times to be fitted with the KJ but in every case, the thermostat housing (and really, that entire assembly) is in the way. This piece is essential to the KJ as it serves as a mixing manifold for a number of inlets and outlets. Oil cooler in and EGR cooler out, for instance. As well as the lower radiator and heater hose connections. Basically, you really need this thing so a similar KL piece could be considered for fitment but probably would fall short of the demands. The general consensus is to grind the "hump" off the starter, thereby creating the space needed for the coolant pipe and rendering the starter a two bolt design. I'll be doing that soon also.

        Have some pictures:

        Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160306_155618.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	119.8 KB
ID:	1241912

        Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160306_155542.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	131.2 KB
ID:	1241913

        Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160306_155531.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	98.8 KB
ID:	1241914

        Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160306_155526.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	89.9 KB
ID:	1241915

        Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160306_155519.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	54.7 KB
ID:	1241916
        Last edited by xYoko; 03-06-2016, 11:40 PM.
        Slowtegay - 03 Sunlight Silver MP5 - KJ Swap in the works.

        Comment


          #34
          In the picture it looks like you can shave the case and still have the third bolt hole for the starter. Am I seeing that correctly?
          91 protege gt. dropzone mx3 springs, mx3 crossmember, ractive front and rear strut braces, rear lower mx3 brace, 4 wheel disc brakes, corksport ss brake and clutch lines,kvr front pads, ractive cai,ram air hood scoop, modified front bumper, shaved ant and rear trunk lock, fubu ant, short shifter, corksport bronzeoil shifter bushings,92 glass sunroof and tail lights, mx3 center console, autometer gauges (volt and oil pressure) cluster needles painted to match, sound system, 17 inch eagle alloy 193 with 205 40 17 rubber. klze is ALIVE BABY!! . http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2394656http://www.toprotege.com/forums/show...hlight=project[url]

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by progt91 View Post
            In the picture it looks like you can shave the case and still have the third bolt hole for the starter. Am I seeing that correctly?
            It's close. I was working on it again today and came to the conclusion that the third (top) bolt hole would need to be halved in depth or removed completely - I chose the latter. I see no issues with a two bolt starter as that works on the Miatas when interchanging between the 5 and 6 speed transmissions.

            I'll post an update with more on that later tonight.
            Slowtegay - 03 Sunlight Silver MP5 - KJ Swap in the works.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by xYoko View Post
              It's close. I was working on it again today and came to the conclusion that the third (top) bolt hole would need to be halved in depth or removed completely - I chose the latter. I see no issues with a two bolt starter as that works on the Miatas when interchanging between the 5 and 6 speed transmissions.

              I'll post an update with more on that later tonight.
              It requires a bit more force to start a miata than a V6. But there are big V8's with 2 bolts so it should be fine. Just align it really well on assembly to minimize any issue.
              Beater=/= Sleeper

              Originally posted by kozzman555
              kitty, you are a hilarious woman
              Originally posted by HopelessCow
              there is one thing i dunno what is that call,a thing look like a gun, u press the button and stick to the metal and it makes firework, do i need that thing?and what s the philip head screw drivers?
              Using Linux for anything serious besides server or software dev is like using a tin can and a string for telecommunications.

              Comment


                #37
                So, today's developments were a mix of fantastic findings and disappointing shortcomings.

                First up, as briefly discussed above: The transmission fitment. I went ahead and mocked it up, proceeded to cut, and rough finish the aluminum. It's still very close but I wanted to remove as little of the casing as possible to allow for clearance. It ended up being "ramped" up to where the smaller pipe is. Below are the markings.

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_174003.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	68.3 KB
ID:	1241927

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_174038.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	60.3 KB
ID:	1241928

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_174044.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	87.5 KB
ID:	1241929

                This is the finished product, I can take more (detailed) pictures at request, but it's fairly straight forward. You can kind of see the "ramp"/"relief" right under the smaller pipe where I didn't quite cut all the way to the starter opening, to prevent debris from having an entry point. Sadly the third (top) "wing" on the starter also needs to get cut off to clear the smaller of the two coolant pipes.

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_184845.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	46.4 KB
ID:	1241930

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_184810.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	64.7 KB
ID:	1241931

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_184850.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	77.5 KB
ID:	1241932

                Okay, next up is what everyone has really been wanting to see. Engine fitment. I've been in contact with Chris (the original KJ swapped P5) and he had a total of two mounts and one solid contact point in his install - the passenger mount was welded solid. While it worked, the build wasn't together long enough to find out whether or not that solid contact would be a fatigue point.

                Right off the bat, I'm going to list the EXACT configuration of mounts and brackets used today for fitment testing.

                KJ-ZEM (obviously lol)
                G25m - sourced from a 98-02 KLG4 626. (PGT, Mx3-GS, and Mx6 v6 should be interchangeable though note the GS and PGT have a 4.3 final versus the 4.1 in the 626 and MX6)
                Protege5 MTX front mount and bracket from the FS 2.0 transmission
                Protege5 MTX rear mount and bracket from the FS 2.0 transmission.
                Protege5 MTX driver (transmission) mount and bracket from the FS 2.0 transmission

                I was able to get the engine in successfully today with three mounts secured and verified the engine was level with the chassis and not skewed. This left me to figure out the passenger (engine) mount. Like I said above, Chris welded the stud from the Milly S mount to the top of the protege5 passenger mount creating a "mount" but actually a solid contact point, transferring energy to the chassis. That would eventually cause a failure of the aluminum adapter bracket the KJ uses, instead of the steel brackets employed on the KL and FS engines.

                I'm going to construct my own motor mount. The work started on it today and I'll need to go to my steel supplier and pick up a few things, then I can get going on welding it. You'll be able to tell from the pictures below what's going on but here's a description of the mount design I have in mind:

                I cut the Protege5 mount in "half", horizontally. I was actually left with less than half as I only want the lower portion of the cup right up to where the attachment from the bracket itself ends. This will give me the bolt pattern and a base with which I can make a mount that is functional but also serviceable for future use. I have to check the diameters and thicknesses available to me, but I'll likely end up using a 3" steel tube with 1/8" thick wall. It'll get ground to seat on the rear-most edge of the cup (that's where the KJ mount falls in relation to where the FS mount bolts). A hole will be drilled on the tube (towards the firewall) and a bolt will be welded through it, from the inside. This will serve as the mount point for the bracket that keeps the mount upright (that bolts to the fender well hump on the stock P5 mount). From there, I'll use a threaded rod with, depending on overall length, two or three 1.5" diameter 1/8" thick metal circles sandwiched between nuts. There will also need to be a resting plate out of 3/16" or possibly 1/4" steel for the adapter bracket to sit on. The rod will get positioned through the KJ adapter bracket with the other three mounts installed securely, then I can adjust the nuts until the resting plate is snug to the adapter bracket, the 2/3 circles are below the top of the 3" tube, and the rod is resting against the bottom of the cup for proper support. I'll fill it with 70A duro poly and let it cure for a week or so. When (if) the mount wears out, I can use a hole saw to remove the polyurethane and make a new threaded rod and metal circle assembly, reusing the welded mount and tube base.

                It's kind of crude but It has to be some sort of vertical mount. The Milly S mount doesn't work on the Protege 5 Frame rail. It actually wasn't even close on height either. Not a total surprise.

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_130131.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	118.2 KB
ID:	1241933

                Well, here are some more pictures of the engine in the bay.

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_130215.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	128.4 KB
ID:	1241934

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_130149.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	108.7 KB
ID:	1241935

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_130138.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	137.5 KB
ID:	1241936

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_130538.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	123.2 KB
ID:	1241937

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_130352.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	98.9 KB
ID:	1241938

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_130232.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	52.2 KB
ID:	1241939

                It was in there comfortably, that's for sure. It also let me finalize the location for the quick disconnect plugs, so I can wire those in and loom the whole engine bay harness on the next nice day outside.

                Did some test fitting of the two linkages I have at my disposal - The factory P5 shifter linkage and the 98-02 626 linkage. I didn't get a picture of them side by side, but they'll both be back out at some time and hopefully I remember to take one. The stabilizer is the same measurement on both but the actuator itself is longer on the 626 linkage. This is why the KL swap crowd doesn't use the Protege linkage, even though it actually works. It sets the shifter to about forth in neutral, putting 4th waaaay back in the "box", 3rd being more like neutral.

                While I like the idea of the 626 linkage being in the right place, I do not like the height of the shifter, or the throw. It's reminiscent of how my P5 linkage was before I removed the extender and retapped it for Honda shift knobs. I don't like tall shifters. Shortening the rod doesn't change the "throw" but it does change the distance required (read: effort). Long story made short: I'm going to need to change the 626 shifter. I'll probably leave it for now but expect a short shifter kit getting cut up for a shorter rod, also. Plus new bronzoil bushings.

                Next: A/C. I took the opportunity while I had the engine in the bay today to test the A/C compressor and alternator for fitment. The alternator is fairly straight forward, I was just concerned with clearance since I'm using a driver (trans) mount when, if I recall correctly, Chris did not have one in his. That means the engine could have been closer to the driver side frame rail than mine. Regardless, it fit just fine.

                The A/C also fits fine, better than fine actually. Perfect. Factory Protege5 high and low side bolt up. Bolt. Right. Up. No fooling around, here.

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_164616.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	86.3 KB
ID:	1241919

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_164559.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	66.7 KB
ID:	1241917

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_164606.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	91.3 KB
ID:	1241918

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_164554.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	77.8 KB
ID:	1241921

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_164544.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	75.5 KB
ID:	1241920

                I did a quick test with the radiators but didn't bother focusing on that too much today. I have the factory p5 radiator and a factory Milly S radiator. Not sure which I'll end up using. The outlets play a role but so does mounting. Especially since I'm keeping A/C and the P5 drier sits about where a larger radiator would land. I may be able to move the drier around. I'm DEFINITELY going to need thinner fans, either way. SPAL low pros, here I come. Just spoke with a friend who's KL swapped his P5 and he's using the factory radiator with a combination of some hoses from different models. I'll look into it later on.

                Last topic of today's experimenting: The exhaust manifolds. I was kind of disappointed. The manifolds bolted right up as I figured out previously, but the collector pipe is hitting the oil pan. It's those odd little casting lines (I don't think they're cast though). I REALLY don't want to go aftermarket and I'm not sure it'll solve the problem anyways because the real issue is the part of the collector pipe that doubles back (the clover leaf). Bosal makes a pipe that doesn't feature that and instead joins right back into the exhaust with no shenanigans. I'm curious to see if that causes a strange (think: boxer) exhaust note.

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_183427.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	74.6 KB
ID:	1241922

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_183436.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	89.4 KB
ID:	1241923

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_183443.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	88.9 KB
ID:	1241924

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_183404.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	88.8 KB
ID:	1241925

                Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20160307_183411.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	116.2 KB
ID:	1241926
                Last edited by xYoko; 03-07-2016, 11:11 PM.
                Slowtegay - 03 Sunlight Silver MP5 - KJ Swap in the works.

                Comment


                  #38
                  How about some EBay/ probe/mx6 headers and downpipe with the KL oil pan? That should work well and better than the log manifold.
                  92 Mazda MX3 GS> For sale, $1750 OBO
                  94 Escort wagon--BP swap coming, VF10 Turbo, COP, EVO ECU, 03 ZX2 front end conversion
                  "Hold yourself accountable before you are held accountable"
                  EV14 330cc@3Bar injector kits available.
                  EV14 GT500 injector kits available for the BP. 610cc@3Bar.
                  EV14 925cc@3Bar injector kits available
                  BP Forged H beam rods available now
                  KL Forged H beam rods available now
                  K8/KF Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
                  FS Forged H beam rods
                  awaiting test fit
                  F2 Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
                  FE3 Forged H beam rods coming soon
                  Mitsubishi 3.8 MIVEC rods coming soon
                  Aluminum CAS/Distributor caps
                  BP oil jet eliminators
                  EV14 fuel rail spacers
                  More stuff coming soon.......

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by 300zxrb26dett View Post
                    How about some EBay/ probe/mx6 headers and downpipe with the KL oil pan? That should work well and better than the log manifold.
                    I'm curious to see some dyno plots from just an aftermarket header set and exhaust. Log manifolds are rather inefficient but I'm wondering what the gains could actually be. The KJ has a 1,000 rpm lower redline and different angle valvetrain than the KL so even those plots wobt be apples to apples. I'd really like to avoid this being a loud/raspy (as ove read most "eBay", OBX, and PaceSetter sets are) setup so for now, I'll probably just end up using a factory pipe without the cloverleaf bit and experiment with long tube headers later on since I have access to a dyno.

                    I'm not sure if the KL pan bolts up, James.

                    Who wants to be a good sport and take some cross-measurements on the bolt pattern and sump depth? If need to make sure the KJ pickup works.
                    Slowtegay - 03 Sunlight Silver MP5 - KJ Swap in the works.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by xYoko View Post
                      I'm curious to see some dyno plots from just an aftermarket header set and exhaust. Log manifolds are rather inefficient but I'm wondering what the gains could actually be. The KJ has a 1,000 rpm lower redline and different angle valvetrain than the KL so even those plots wobt be apples to apples. I'd really like to avoid this being a loud/raspy (as ove read most "eBay", OBX, and PaceSetter sets are) setup so for now, I'll probably just end up using a factory pipe without the cloverleaf bit and experiment with long tube headers later on since I have access to a dyno.

                      I'm not sure if the KL pan bolts up, James.

                      Who wants to be a good sport and take some cross-measurements on the bolt pattern and sump depth? If need to make sure the KJ pickup works.
                      Good luck finding a Dyno plot, I searched and came up with nothing. The word on the street is that Pacesetter style long tubes make the most power (logical assumption) but sound terrible. The shorty ebay style ones make less than the pacesetter but obviously better than log manifold but they sound the best due to equal length piping from the clover leaf. I can confirm that the ebay headers do sound good, since I have them on my car and it sounds great IMHO. Ebay headers to the stock cat then 3" pipe the whole way back with a 3" Vibrant resonator and a 3" Vibrant street power muffler, and its not loud or raspy. One thing I will note about the Ebay headers: They obviously have room for improvement being cheap, but overall you cant beat them for the price. If I were so inclined to modify them which I may one day, I would get a much better quality collector and redo the whole down pipe with larger piping. The down pipe section has smaller ID pipe than the stock K8 one I took off

                      I am pretty sure the KL pan will bolt up because I remember reading something about swapping a KJ pan on the KL on probetalk:
                      Last edited by KAinjection; 03-08-2016, 09:23 PM.
                      92 Mazda MX3 GS> For sale, $1750 OBO
                      94 Escort wagon--BP swap coming, VF10 Turbo, COP, EVO ECU, 03 ZX2 front end conversion
                      "Hold yourself accountable before you are held accountable"
                      EV14 330cc@3Bar injector kits available.
                      EV14 GT500 injector kits available for the BP. 610cc@3Bar.
                      EV14 925cc@3Bar injector kits available
                      BP Forged H beam rods available now
                      KL Forged H beam rods available now
                      K8/KF Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
                      FS Forged H beam rods
                      awaiting test fit
                      F2 Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
                      FE3 Forged H beam rods coming soon
                      Mitsubishi 3.8 MIVEC rods coming soon
                      Aluminum CAS/Distributor caps
                      BP oil jet eliminators
                      EV14 fuel rail spacers
                      More stuff coming soon.......

                      Comment


                        #41
                        hmm...I'll have to consider. Fortunately the KL pans are in abundance so I won't need to jump on it right away. I just really REALLY don't want a loud car. The KJ has such a fantastic sound, just want it pure. The power numbers aren't the ultimate goal here. Maybe I'll snag a pan while I'm at the junkyard to pick up a few different axles for T&E since the KJ-FS intermediate shaft didn't work
                        Slowtegay - 03 Sunlight Silver MP5 - KJ Swap in the works.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          i didn't think the ebay headers sounded bad at all. and for the price you can't' beat it.
                          ---Has ClubProtege helped you in someway? show your support by Contributing--- Click Here---

                          1992- project FE3..... 313 WHP @ 9.3psi




                          I pet my dash when I get into the car..."good car"
                          he actually has a mazda tree, parts grow on it

                          Comment


                            #43
                            You all are making quite a compelling argument lol. The pipe without cloverleaf is approx $160 shipped. The egay header set and collector is looking about the same. I'll just have to source an oil pan, windage tray, and pickup in the hopes that they're all interchangeable. Yay, more guesswork lol.
                            Slowtegay - 03 Sunlight Silver MP5 - KJ Swap in the works.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              are the head flange bolt patterns the same?? im clueless. why not just grab an ebay set & mod em to work with the current pan. ebay headers you have to modify to work anyway, so you might as well.
                              ---Has ClubProtege helped you in someway? show your support by Contributing--- Click Here---

                              1992- project FE3..... 313 WHP @ 9.3psi




                              I pet my dash when I get into the car..."good car"
                              he actually has a mazda tree, parts grow on it

                              Comment


                                #45
                                They're nearly the same. The lower, center bolt on both sides is offset from the KL/K8 pattern. Interestingly, the gasket is slotted to work for both the KJ and KL/K8 pattern.

                                My largest consideration for modification is whether or not the car will be noisy. I road trip a lot. I want a comfy car that is nice to listen to but not annoying to hear, if that makes any sense. A friend who's experimented with headers on his KL advised against aftermarket because most of them are considerably noisier and introduce rasp. Some amount of resonators could resolve that but the end game is a Racing Beat P5 exhaust system anyways. I'm already having to modify the collector pipe after the flex secton to mate with the factory mounting location of the P5 exhaust (post cat) so some modification to the pipes wouldn't be the end of the world. I'm just weighing the options on what makes sense now from a cost standpoint of getting the engine in to begin the arduous tuning process. I can make small changes for a header set later on if I decide to upgrade.

                                It comes down to: buy the collector pipes that works with the factory header and just weld the new flange after the flex section

                                or

                                Buy an ebay setup and have to modify the collector near the pan and the flange

                                or

                                Buy an ebay setup and source a KL pan and see if the pickup and windage tray will work. I haven't pulled the pan on the KJ yet but I'm going to guess it doesn't have a windage tray to begin with. Probably won't be a bad idea to add one if I can but not really a huge deal. The biggest hinge for this option is whether or not the KJ oil pickup will work with the KL pan and, if not, will the KL pickup work with the KJ pump? The pumps don't seem even remotely interchangeable because of the vacuum pump, most obviously, and a few other tidbits.

                                EDIT: Also, I'm considering all these options for the sake of full disclosure on a swap that has little to no documentation on small details. I'll probably end up with the factory collector for now and work on upgrades later. I have to budget carefully because this isn't my only ongoing project.
                                Last edited by xYoko; 03-09-2016, 08:36 PM.
                                Slowtegay - 03 Sunlight Silver MP5 - KJ Swap in the works.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X