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Evo 8 ECU, harness, and individual coil pack, upgrade on B4pro

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    #31
    Double arrowheads annotate connectors (I.E. male/female plug connections) if I remember correctly. That shouldn't have anything to do with your tach not working, the tach is completely mechanical as far as I know.

    If I'm still on the right path, the number/letters next to the arrowheads annotate which harness the connector is (to easily find it).

    Click image for larger version

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    There is a speed sensing gear that spins inside the trans case which I believe turns the bottom end of the speedo cable and is what mechanically turns and operates the needle on the gauge.

    Not sure what current is doing there, but I could be wrong about operation.

    Kitty is better at reading diagrams.
    Last edited by Cloud_Strife; 08-19-2016, 06:54 PM.
    1991 Protege LX 5MT, P/S, A/C, NOW Sun Roof!

    Comment


      #32
      I imagine the EVO ecu uses wasted spark.

      You should be able to run the wire whatever wire you're using for Y/L(EM) from the current ignition coil setup to either your old igniter/a miata igniter or even straight to the gauge cluster depending on it's voltage output (with/without a voltage divider on any of these)

      I don't recall if all miatas were wasted spark off hand and I know the 1.6 had an igniter similar to the BP pros. But just googling EMS+Miata+tach should get you set in the right direction.
      Beater=/= Sleeper

      Originally posted by kozzman555
      kitty, you are a hilarious woman
      Originally posted by HopelessCow
      there is one thing i dunno what is that call,a thing look like a gun, u press the button and stick to the metal and it makes firework, do i need that thing?and what s the philip head screw drivers?
      Using Linux for anything serious besides server or software dev is like using a tin can and a string for telecommunications.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Kitty View Post
        I imagine the EVO ecu uses wasted spark.

        You should be able to run the wire whatever wire you're using for Y/L(EM) from the current ignition coil setup to either your old igniter/a miata igniter or even straight to the gauge cluster depending on it's voltage output (with/without a voltage divider on any of these)

        I don't recall if all miatas were wasted spark off hand and I know the 1.6 had an igniter similar to the BP pros. But just googling EMS+Miata+tach should get you set in the right direction.
        All NA and NB are wasted spark.

        One should theorically be able to run a wire with a diode from each coil to the tach. The tach is is just waiting for pulses from the coil packs. Wasted spark vs Seq shouldn't matter for the tach. In wasted spark the two coils will spark twice each for one rotation of all cylinders. In seq each one will only spark once per rotation of all cylinder but either way that is still just 4 pulses.

        Comment


          #34
          Or you could just get the tach adapter and be done with it. Easiest solution.


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          92 Mazda MX3 GS> For sale, $1750 OBO
          94 Escort wagon--BP swap coming, VF10 Turbo, COP, EVO ECU, 03 ZX2 front end conversion
          "Hold yourself accountable before you are held accountable"
          EV14 330cc@3Bar injector kits available.
          EV14 GT500 injector kits available for the BP. 610cc@3Bar.
          EV14 925cc@3Bar injector kits available
          BP Forged H beam rods available now
          KL Forged H beam rods available now
          K8/KF Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
          FS Forged H beam rods
          awaiting test fit
          F2 Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
          FE3 Forged H beam rods coming soon
          Mitsubishi 3.8 MIVEC rods coming soon
          Aluminum CAS/Distributor caps
          BP oil jet eliminators
          EV14 fuel rail spacers
          More stuff coming soon.......

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Wildfire0310 View Post
            All NA and NB are wasted spark.

            One should theorically be able to run a wire with a diode from each coil to the tach. The tach is is just waiting for pulses from the coil packs. Wasted spark vs Seq shouldn't matter for the tach. In wasted spark the two coils will spark twice each for one rotation of all cylinders. In seq each one will only spark once per rotation of all cylinder but either way that is still just 4 pulses.

            This.

            When i went wasted spark on my MS2e setup i just put a couple diodes in the harness. No need for a tach adapter just some 10 cent diodes.
            Escort GTR -- 11.87 @ 117.6 mph -- 320 HP / 325 Ft. Lbs. @ 23 PSI
            ... The first FWD BG with a Toyota E153 transmission conversion in the USA!
            Looking for BP x Toyota E153 adapter plates? PM me or contact me on Facebook: Riel Performance Parts

            Comment


              #36
              You have to remember this is not Megasquirt, and you can't change anything inside the ECU so you run the risk of burning up the ECU this way.

              It's not like MSD is paying him to sell tach adapters, so there is no reason for him to tell you it needs one unless it does, and if there was an alternative it would have made perfect sense to include it in the package.


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
              92 Mazda MX3 GS> For sale, $1750 OBO
              94 Escort wagon--BP swap coming, VF10 Turbo, COP, EVO ECU, 03 ZX2 front end conversion
              "Hold yourself accountable before you are held accountable"
              EV14 330cc@3Bar injector kits available.
              EV14 GT500 injector kits available for the BP. 610cc@3Bar.
              EV14 925cc@3Bar injector kits available
              BP Forged H beam rods available now
              KL Forged H beam rods available now
              K8/KF Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
              FS Forged H beam rods
              awaiting test fit
              F2 Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
              FE3 Forged H beam rods coming soon
              Mitsubishi 3.8 MIVEC rods coming soon
              Aluminum CAS/Distributor caps
              BP oil jet eliminators
              EV14 fuel rail spacers
              More stuff coming soon.......

              Comment


                #37
                I've resolved to use the adapter. Carlos said early on that he was going to cover the cost for me. I was holding out so I could try and prevent another expense for anyone coming after me. If a work around does become available, I'll link it back here. Thanks for the help guys.
                1991 Protege LX with GTX swap, DD
                1990 4WD Protege with GTX swap, Project/garage decoration
                2006 Mazda 3 with 2.3, Her car
                1980 Ford F100 Short bed with 300ci 6 cylinder, work truck/home for moss

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by 300zxrb26dett View Post
                  You have to remember this is not Megasquirt, and you can't change anything inside the ECU so you run the risk of burning up the ECU this way.

                  It's not like MSD is paying him to sell tach adapters, so there is no reason for him to tell you it needs one unless it does, and if there was an alternative it would have made perfect sense to include it in the package.


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                  Tach shouldn't care what ECU you are running. Most of the Mazda tach I have seen from the late 80/early 90s run directly from the coils. The Tach is just looking for a series of square pulse waves. The biggest issue is making sure you are in the right voltage range for your tach.

                  Maybe there is something unique about the Evo ECU I don't get why you'd have issues. Guys are already using the coil pack tricks. I need to get off my ass and hook up my tack via this way for when I swapped out my dizzy to Miata coils.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Wildfire0310 View Post
                    Tach shouldn't care what ECU you are running. Most of the Mazda tach I have seen from the late 80/early 90s run directly from the coils. The Tach is just looking for a series of square pulse waves. The biggest issue is making sure you are in the right voltage range for your tach.

                    Maybe there is something unique about the Evo ECU I don't get why you'd have issues. Guys are already using the coil pack tricks. I need to get off my ass and hook up my tack via this way for when I swapped out my dizzy to Miata coils.
                    I understand what your saying, but it has something to do with driving smart coils with this ECU etc... Carlos can explain it in detail if you ask him.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                    92 Mazda MX3 GS> For sale, $1750 OBO
                    94 Escort wagon--BP swap coming, VF10 Turbo, COP, EVO ECU, 03 ZX2 front end conversion
                    "Hold yourself accountable before you are held accountable"
                    EV14 330cc@3Bar injector kits available.
                    EV14 GT500 injector kits available for the BP. 610cc@3Bar.
                    EV14 925cc@3Bar injector kits available
                    BP Forged H beam rods available now
                    KL Forged H beam rods available now
                    K8/KF Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
                    FS Forged H beam rods
                    awaiting test fit
                    F2 Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
                    FE3 Forged H beam rods coming soon
                    Mitsubishi 3.8 MIVEC rods coming soon
                    Aluminum CAS/Distributor caps
                    BP oil jet eliminators
                    EV14 fuel rail spacers
                    More stuff coming soon.......

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Ahh that's right i keep forgetting that this setup uses COP with the ignitors built into each coil.

                      In order to do the diode trick that Wildfire and i have been talking about, you need to be able to tap into the signal between the ignitor and the coil. This is possible on a 1g/2g dsm, an NA/NB miata, etc.... not possible with most COP coils.
                      Escort GTR -- 11.87 @ 117.6 mph -- 320 HP / 325 Ft. Lbs. @ 23 PSI
                      ... The first FWD BG with a Toyota E153 transmission conversion in the USA!
                      Looking for BP x Toyota E153 adapter plates? PM me or contact me on Facebook: Riel Performance Parts

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by 300zxrb26dett View Post
                        I understand what your saying, but it has something to do with driving smart coils with this ECU etc... Carlos can explain it in detail if you ask him.


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                        Yea maybe, but in a few months I'll be finding out as I am already planning to pickup an Evo8 ecu locally and get Carlos to make a harness for my BF GTX.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by therieldeal View Post
                          Ahh that's right i keep forgetting that this setup uses COP with the ignitors built into each coil.

                          In order to do the diode trick that Wildfire and i have been talking about, you need to be able to tap into the signal between the ignitor and the coil. This is possible on a 1g/2g dsm, an NA/NB miata, etc.... not possible with most COP coils.
                          Ah... Yea I kinda for got about COP on this setup and now I remember some of the Miata Turbo guys having issues with the toyota COP and getting a tach signal.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            You can’t just wire the COP triggers with diodes or resisters to the tach. The COP triggers are pulsed +5V sourcing inputs and the tach is a pulsed 0V sinking input. They’re completely opposite of each other.

                            Originally posted by 1st Gen View Post
                            When looking at my schematic, it seems the tach runs off the igniter. There's a couple of up arrow looking things on the trace which must be the resister Kitty is be talking about.

                            "A car igniter is a component in the car's engine that is responsible for sending a signal from within the distributor to the ignition coil, making the spark plugs fire. It is also known as the ignition control module."

                            Carlos said something about waste spark which kind of confuses me.
                            You’re on the right track, you just got some of the details wrong..LOL

                            The “up looking arrows” aren’t resistors, they just represent electrical connections. The second part is that the igniter is not located inside of the distributor, it’s right here circled in green in the attached pic right underneath the filtering capacitor.


                            There should be no need for a tach adaptor; all you’ll need to do is use the original igniter and a pair of diodes.

                            Tap into cylinder 3 and 4’s COP trigger signal wires with a diode on each one . Connect the other end of both diodes to the green/white wire going into the original igniter. Then just connect the igniter’s black/orange wire to ground and the yellow/blue to the tach.
                            Last edited by chrispoe; 09-02-2016, 09:38 AM.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by chrispoe View Post
                              You can’t just wire the COP triggers with diodes or resisters to the tach. The COP triggers are pulsed +5V sourcing inputs and the tach is a pulsed 0V sinking input. They’re completely opposite of each other.


                              You’re on the right track, you just got some of the details wrong..LOL

                              The “up looking arrows” aren’t resistors, they just represent electrical connections. The second part is that the igniter is not located inside of the distributor, it’s right here circled in green in the attached pic right underneath the filtering capacitor.


                              There should be no need for a tach adaptor; all you’ll need to do is use the original igniter and a pair of diodes.

                              Tap into cylinder 3 and 4’s COP trigger signal wires with a diode on each one . Connect the other end of both diodes to the green/white wire going into the original igniter. Then just connect the igniter’s black/orange wire to ground and the yellow/blue to the tach.
                              Thank you for this.

                              I've since figured some of this out. When Cloud_Strife posted about the double arrows being plugs, I kind of had a "duh" moment. Of course they are.
                              I asked a friend a while back what that part was under the coil and he told me it was a controller for the knock sensor. So for years, that's what I thought it was. It wasn't until I started looking closely myself that I figure out. The rest of the info is new to me and greatly appreciated.

                              I need to get back to this project. Once things settle down a bit around here, I will.
                              1991 Protege LX with GTX swap, DD
                              1990 4WD Protege with GTX swap, Project/garage decoration
                              2006 Mazda 3 with 2.3, Her car
                              1980 Ford F100 Short bed with 300ci 6 cylinder, work truck/home for moss

                              Comment


                                #45
                                What happen with the project evo ecu bp

                                Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

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