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1995 Protege BP Turbo Build - ECU Question

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    1995 Protege BP Turbo Build - ECU Question

    Hey guys

    At first I am from germany and my english isn't the best. So I apologize in advance if I do not write everything correctly.

    My Name is Toni and I've got a 1995 Mazda 323 (Protege) with BP engine (114hp). Its my daily driver and I want to install a VJ23 GTR Turbocharger on it. Here is a pic:
    Click image for larger version

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    Lots of you boostet the BP Engines in their proteges. What did you do with your ECU? Piggypack? Standalone? GTR ECU?

    Standalone is to much effort until de engine runs properly. I'm using a Megasquirt on my other 323, that not the solution for my daily drive 323 protege.

    The original GTR ECU would not work without changing the complete engine bay harness incl engine components (air flow meter, throttlebodysensor, ...) and there it would give a lot of problems to combine the BG harness into a BA harness.

    The easiest way is to use the Piggypack eManage Ultimate which I used in my other 323 before. I just had to adjust the fuel map and just had to modify the ignition table with decreasing ignition angle while boost is increasing.
    When the engine is increasing boost by 0,1bar, then I have to decrease ignition timing by 1 degree. At 0,2bar then I have to decrease ignition timing by 2 degree. And so on. So its called as a rule of thumb.

    But there is my problem: I dont know the actual OEM ignition angle, I only know my modification. I only can estimate it from the exhaust gas temperature. Thats not safe enough.
    This ONLY works, if the ignition timing stays continuously at the same value. But what when the ignition angle from the OEM ECU is rising up with increasing RPMs? Then this would not work and I would blow my engine after a while of driving because of knocking. Or I am making the ignition timing too soft and I got EGTs like hell.

    How did you solved this?


    Thanks a lot, Toni
    Last edited by Tonicalibra; 01-10-2017, 04:14 AM.
    1996 Opel Calibra 2.0 8V 115 HP - Sunshine Driver
    1995 Mazda 323-S 1.9 16V 114 HP - Daily Driver
    1995 Mazda 323-C 1.9 16V 160 HP - "Racecar" :D

    #2
    Anyone experiences he wants to share with me?
    Last edited by Tonicalibra; 01-10-2017, 04:15 AM.
    1996 Opel Calibra 2.0 8V 115 HP - Sunshine Driver
    1995 Mazda 323-S 1.9 16V 114 HP - Daily Driver
    1995 Mazda 323-C 1.9 16V 160 HP - "Racecar" :D

    Comment


      #3
      Someone help this man out! We need more turbo BHA's in the world! Lol I wish I had answers for ya

      Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

      Comment


        #4
        Can't you just move the pins around on the ecu clip to run a gtr ecu?
        bp swapped escort lx, gtr ecu, gtr intake manifold, A code VAF, rx7 460cc injectors, ky clutch, holset hy35 turbo on 8lbs, 38mm tial wastegate, ramhorn manifold, full 3 inch ss exhaust, walbro 255 fuel pump

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Boosted Escort View Post
          Can't you just move the pins around on the ecu clip to run a gtr ecu?
          No, I can't.

          The ECU is from BG-series and my vehicle is from BA-series. These are two absolute different electrical systems. The BG uses an AFM (AirFlowMeter) which measures the air volume. The BA uses an AFM which measures the air mass. These are two different signals which you cant insert into another ECU. Further the BG has a knock sensor signal, my BA vehicle has no sensor and no cable for this. Exactly the same is with the whole boost controlling - the wiring harness of my BA vehicle does not allow it. As well the GTR ECU gets no electrical tach signal for the speedometer because the BG-series had a mechanical speedometer cable. My BA-series vehicle needs a eletrical speed signal from the gearbox to show the speedometer a speed. And so on and so on. Its not possible just to swap the ECUs with re-wiring the Pins.

          If I would drive a BG-series n/a BP DOHC then it would be easy to swap to GTR. Then I only had so swap the engine wiring harness, ECU and the turbo parts. Since I am driving a BA-series, its not possible to use BG-series technology by swapping the ECU.
          1996 Opel Calibra 2.0 8V 115 HP - Sunshine Driver
          1995 Mazda 323-S 1.9 16V 114 HP - Daily Driver
          1995 Mazda 323-C 1.9 16V 160 HP - "Racecar" :D

          Comment


            #6
            So cool man. Good luck to you


            Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

            Comment


              #7
              Talk with Carlos at BP Performance Specialty https://www.facebook.com/BPperformance1.8/

              He offers custom wiring harnesses which will allow you to run your BP on a fully-tunable Mitsubishi EVO ecu. Not sure he's ever built one for a BH/BA chassis car, but he's done several BG's, Miata's, etc... should be feasible.
              Escort GTR -- 11.87 @ 117.6 mph -- 320 HP / 325 Ft. Lbs. @ 23 PSI
              ... The first FWD BG with a Toyota E153 transmission conversion in the USA!
              Looking for BP x Toyota E153 adapter plates? PM me or contact me on Facebook: Riel Performance Parts

              Comment


                #8
                His harnesses are standalone for the most part only needing you to hookup fuel pump, power, and ground. So it shouldn't matter what type of chassis you have as long as you can hook up a few wires yourself. Plus he does remote tuning, you can data log and he will adjust your tune from Florida.
                1995 escort wagon gtr/holset
                1990 4wd pro - daily beater/monster car/mud buggy( sold)
                1993 323(sold)
                I'm buying parts i don't need, With money I don't have, To impress people I don't know.

                Some people are like slinkies. They're not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I am able to wire it myself and I am able to tune it myself.

                  Thanks for the link. I will ask him if he have expieriences in tuning BA-series.

                  I have a second 323 in white in which I am driving an MS2PNP. And there you get a lot of problems when using a Standalone in BA-series. Par example: The BA-series uses a ignition coil which is integrated in the distributor. This ignition coil has no own IGBT-driver, so that the OEM BA-series ECU had to send out an amplified ignition signal. No standalone ECU does this, so your ignition coil will get a signal which is too low and the goil will overheat after a time. So you have to upgrade to COPS or you have to install a MOSFET-ignition driver by yourself. Just as ONE example of problems which you never get if you dont drive BA-series.

                  So you can see, that a standalone ECU is a nice idea. But not when driving BA-series, then you geht much problems which taked to much time and effort to get solved. Thats not the solution I am searching for my daily 323.

                  Doesnt here anybody is using a piggypack on this turbo'ed BP/B6 who can tell me, if it works for long time or if he get problems after a while (beause of poor ignition time tuning and knocking)?
                  1996 Opel Calibra 2.0 8V 115 HP - Sunshine Driver
                  1995 Mazda 323-S 1.9 16V 114 HP - Daily Driver
                  1995 Mazda 323-C 1.9 16V 160 HP - "Racecar" :D

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The Mitsubishi ECU setup that Carlos puts together utilizes either COP (he sells COP mounting plates too for Toyota and Mitsubishi coils) or wasted-spark coil packs (from a Miata, Mitsubishi, etc.), so it would eliminate your factory distributor and replace it with a CAS from a Miata. That wonky BA series coil would be long gone.

                    Since it's an OEM ecu it offers OEM driveability and reliability for things like cold starts, idle, etc. which can be a real pain to tune with something like Megasquirt (I've been there). It's kind of halfway in between a "full standalone" and a stock ECU, which makes it great for a street car. If i hadn't already spent years getting my car running well on megasquirt I'd be putting one of these setups in my escort for sure. If i can talk the wife into it, I'll be putting one in our '99 Miata at some point...
                    Escort GTR -- 11.87 @ 117.6 mph -- 320 HP / 325 Ft. Lbs. @ 23 PSI
                    ... The first FWD BG with a Toyota E153 transmission conversion in the USA!
                    Looking for BP x Toyota E153 adapter plates? PM me or contact me on Facebook: Riel Performance Parts

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Tonicalibra View Post
                      I am able to wire it myself and I am able to tune it myself.

                      Thanks for the link. I will ask him if he have expieriences in tuning BA-series.

                      I have a second 323 in white in which I am driving an MS2PNP. And there you get a lot of problems when using a Standalone in BA-series. Par example: The BA-series uses a ignition coil which is integrated in the distributor. This ignition coil has no own IGBT-driver, so that the OEM BA-series ECU had to send out an amplified ignition signal. No standalone ECU does this, so your ignition coil will get a signal which is too low and the goil will overheat after a time. So you have to upgrade to COPS or you have to install a MOSFET-ignition driver by yourself. Just as ONE example of problems which you never get if you dont drive BA-series.
                      Thank you for that bit of info, as I have a bh, and have found out how the ignition coil in the distributor works, all this for the dream of mega squirt, but did not know about that problem!!!!

                      Isi there not something called an ignition driver board, that goes with ms?


                      Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by therieldeal View Post
                        The Mitsubishi ECU setup that Carlos puts together utilizes either COP (he sells COP mounting plates too for Toyota and Mitsubishi coils) or wasted-spark coil packs (from a Miata, Mitsubishi, etc.), so it would eliminate your factory distributor and replace it with a CAS from a Miata. That wonky BA series coil would be long gone.

                        Since it's an OEM ecu it offers OEM driveability and reliability for things like cold starts, idle, etc. which can be a real pain to tune with something like Megasquirt (I've been there). It's kind of halfway in between a "full standalone" and a stock ECU, which makes it great for a street car. If i hadn't already spent years getting my car running well on megasquirt I'd be putting one of these setups in my escort for sure. If i can talk the wife into it, I'll be putting one in our '99 Miata at some point...

                        In my white 323 I am already using the mx5 CAS for camshaft signal since I did the COP conversion, the CAS works good so far.

                        Yeah that sounds great with this EVO ECU. But maybe I got a better idea:

                        Why not using the MS2 (its an ECU which I know about in contrast to the evo ECU) just as a piggypack? Just hook up only the ignition and fuel-injector wires and let the rest get controled by the oem ECU. Then I would have all advantages of the oem ECU (idle, driveability, fuel cut at deceleration, ...) combined with the full controll over fuel & ignition by MS2 standalone. I think this should work.

                        @FarcryNZ Yeah, you got a ignition driver on the MS2 mainboard. But this driver dont sends out an amplified signal. You need to install a extern MOSFET driver, then it should works.
                        Last edited by Tonicalibra; 01-15-2017, 01:57 PM.
                        1996 Opel Calibra 2.0 8V 115 HP - Sunshine Driver
                        1995 Mazda 323-S 1.9 16V 114 HP - Daily Driver
                        1995 Mazda 323-C 1.9 16V 160 HP - "Racecar" :D

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Thanks man.
                          You should post about your 323 on this site also.

                          Yes piggyback like you describe sounds good, so MS takes care off ignition timing and fuel, original ECU controls the idle control valve, all those other things.

                          Are all the stock input sensors good enough for ms2?


                          Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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                            #14
                            Yep, all the stock input sensors are good enough for the MS2. There are no issues.

                            But when using the MS2 as piggypack, then its easier to use seperate IAT + CLT sensors for the MS2 only.
                            You can read here how to share IAT + CLT sensors with oem ECU + MS2, it sounds quiet complex:


                            Thats why I will install two seperate sensors just for the MS2 only, its more easier and the sensors are cheap and fast installed.
                            1996 Opel Calibra 2.0 8V 115 HP - Sunshine Driver
                            1995 Mazda 323-S 1.9 16V 114 HP - Daily Driver
                            1995 Mazda 323-C 1.9 16V 160 HP - "Racecar" :D

                            Comment


                              #15
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                              my mazda

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