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Ignition Diagnosis Help. ( No Crank but can bump start)

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    Ignition Diagnosis Help. ( No Crank but can bump start)

    Ok guys...

    I've got a manual 2003 p5

    The car won't start. I used it one day and parked it in the driveway... I went out in the morning and it wouldn't start.

    I figured it was a dead battery so I put a charger on it and it still wouldn't even click the starter. I bump started the car and let it run for about an hour... When to start it once warmed up... Nothing

    I replaced the starter. (Not a fun job - top back bolt was stripped at the factory) - Nothing

    I replaced the "Ig Key" Relay in the engine bay #3. - Nothing
    (I did test this by applying a 12v charge across the coil and I couldn't get continuity so I thought that was going to be my problem.) ...Edit... I noticed I had the tester configured incorrectly today. I ended up applying 7 volts to the coil rather than 12. (old school electronics workbench had the wrong color on the 5V supply) 12 -5 = 7V difference.



    So...
    My battery reads 12.65+V after I leave the tender on it. It's a one year old Die Hard so I don't think that is likely.

    We know the car runs if I start it in gear.

    I think the clutch sensor switch works when pressed. I did a continuity check with a multi meter.

    Starter should be good as it is new

    Ig Key relay should be good as well (engine bay) ... Edit ... The old one was fine

    Lights come on on the dash when I turn the key to the run position.

    The engine temp indicator does NOT move so the main fuse should be fine(and the car runs)

    When I turn to start I hear a click (relay under the passenger side dash?) - I haven't tested continuity on this yet as I don't know where it is. ... Edit ... Found and Tested to be good
    ................................................

    So what part(s) haven't I looked at yet?

    This problem was abrupt rather than intermittent.
    Is there a fuse for something I don't know about?

    Where is the starter relay in the cabin?

    Once I get this all sorted out I'll try to do a write up on how to trouble shoot this crap (fairly busy at the moment).
    Last edited by Moto; 03-21-2017, 12:46 PM.

    #2
    Found the passenger side relay... It's fine. Continuity check is good when 12 volts is applied.

    If you happen to be looking for the same relay you access it by opening the passenger door and taking the little side panel off the dash. (The part you normally couldn't get at because it would be flush with the door. You can work a small flat head screw driver in at the top and work it around to get the cover off.

    You do not need to remove your glove compartment... (like I did...)

    ... I'm stumped

    It's going to be hard to even get test leads to the starter... I'm fairly confident power isn't making it that far.
    Last edited by Moto; 03-21-2017, 12:47 PM.

    Comment


      #3
      are you getting 12v at the spade terminal on the starter?? a common problem is simply corrosion of the terminal itself...
      ---Has ClubProtege helped you in someway? show your support by Contributing--- Click Here---

      1992- project FE3..... 313 WHP @ 9.3psi




      I pet my dash when I get into the car..."good car"
      he actually has a mazda tree, parts grow on it

      Comment


        #4
        Called the dealer where I bought the car to see if they could point me in the right direction.... I figured it was a long shot... Yep **** those guys.

        I actually when on "justanswer." - I ended up paying $15 for advice, but the guy did send me a good circuit diagram of the start system. I normally don't like to pay for advice, but at least it was quick and the guy was helpful.

        I decided I probably don't have voltage making it out of the ignition switch.
        (No power at the signal fuse) – Fuse is good
        (No power on the clutch switch) – Switch is good

        New ignition switch should show up tomorrow...

        I really hope that fixes it because I have tested everything else in the circuit diagram.

        The only thing I don't see in the diagram is anything pertaining to the stupid factory alarm system that came on the car... I know that technically could disable the start system.

        Anyway... I'll try to update here.

        I'll probably try to do a troubleshooting video/blog post on this. I never really did find good information. It did see where a couple of other people had videos on the how to change the ignition switch but they didn't really explain how the system worked.

        I've messed with a couple of things that had nothing to do with the problem. The relay you hear click by the passenger door is actually used to take power away from the blower and a couple of other things. It isn't part of the starting circuit.


        .... and good god man nearly 24k posts? You're a machine. I run a couple of other forums I don't have 24k posts.
        -Question about the forum: Do you have the ability to lengthen the login timeout? I find myself getting logged out when I get sidetracked on other things. I'm more familiar with phpbb than vbulletin.

        To answer your question... I didn't test it yet, but it probably does. Luckily my P5 has lot less rust than most of the others I see on the road. The terminals didn't look too bad.
        However, I'm going to be lucky if I didn't cause damage to the wiring when I swapped the starter. That was a PITA

        This was the top back bolt on the starter... You can turn this one ratchet click per turn... It took me like two hours to get out. I had to take a bunch of extra stuff out so I could use a breaker bar. I couldn't figure out why it wasn't getting an easier to turn until I finally got it out.
        Click image for larger version

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        Last edited by Moto; 03-21-2017, 07:23 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          thats a knarly bolt. believe it or not, most of the transmission bolts in these cars end up like that. mazda really dropped the ball with these cars in every aspect.
          test for power at the starter spade terminal (humor me there would ya)
          ---Has ClubProtege helped you in someway? show your support by Contributing--- Click Here---

          1992- project FE3..... 313 WHP @ 9.3psi




          I pet my dash when I get into the car..."good car"
          he actually has a mazda tree, parts grow on it

          Comment


            #6
            Figured it out...

            Super pissed. My car came with a "factory alarm system." There is a 20 amp fuse under the dash in a fuse holder without a cover that is downward facing.

            The ****ing fuse fell out and it disabled the starter on my car. I didn't figure this out until I was doing continuity checks between the ignition switch and the clutch...

            Somehow the fuse got kicked under the back corner of my floor-mat so I never noticed it (Murphy's Law).

            I never arm the car alarm so I didn't notice the lack of a blinky light until I was looking at stuff today.

            so... Now I have a new starter that spins the car slower than my old one, and a new ignition switch that I didn't need.

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