turbo choices, or how to waste hours googling and reading about really neat stuff....

[SgtRauksauff]

So, I'm finally getting my butt deciding to drop a chunk of change on a good turbo for my 4WD Protege/E153 project.

originally it was a vj20/vf10 hybrid, but that really isn't going to scratch the power itch at the end of the day anymore. This is a 27-year-old car that I'm trying to make competitive with newer stuff. I was originally thinking maybe something around 320awhp, but with improvements in tuning options (EVO ecu, etc..) a useable 375-400awhp+ is actually within the realm of reality, rather than a pipe dream.

here it sits in mockup from awhile back..


For now, I'll be using a GTR intake, and the exhaust manifold is an untouched PSC unit from Skuce's group buy from years ago. (yeah, I've been hoarding parts for a long time).

it's got a Flange drilled for a T3 or a vj20. I've got friends that can weld better than me if I can't do it, and I am not opposed to putting a different/better flange on this thing, maybe a v-band since 1. they're awesome and 2. more and more manufacturers are using them.

So I saw mention of a Garrett GT2560R (good spool, runs out of power before 300), or GT2871R (worse spool, but has a ton of top end), then I see that they have a GTX2867R which has the spool of the one, and better top end of the other..

THEN I see lots of stuff regarding Borg Warner's offerings, especially the EFR6258, and S200SX. I'm kind of impressed by them, actually.

I see a few folks running Holsets also.

Has anyone here used any of the Borg-Warner units? I'm kind of intrigued by them, and haven't really found anything "bad" about them yet. I think they're doing some really cool variable vane and magic voodoo stuff on newer pricey fancy-cars, which this is not.

discuss!


--sarge

[1st Gen]

Hey Sarge,
very good to see you knocking around again.
Subin.

[atomicEGT]

Sarge, you might wanna be careful with that PSC manifold- mine cracked in between runners down by the turbo flange, and I know I'm not the only one that happened to.

[SgtRauksauff]

Yeah, I heard about that, and saw your pictures. I'm probably going to re-weld some sections, and definitely make a brace. and, If I end up going with one of the Borg-Warner turbos, they can be quite a bit lighter than one would expect.

--sarge

[Wildfire0310]

Some more information about the EFR turbos since this sparked me to research some more :D.

Quote from Andrew Kidd (Trackspeed racing), note this is form their turbo sale system so it could be a touch bias.

Mated to this manifold is BorgWarner's EFR turbocharger, which features a titanium aluminide turbine wheel for unmatched response and spool, an internal wastegate which outperforms comparable external wastegates, an integrated bypass valve for simplicity and ease of installation, and an integrated electronic boost controller for easily adjustable boost levels. The EFR6258 is our standard turbocharger, providing excellent spool and unmatched response while still providing up to 325whp without a decrease in efficiency. The EFR6758 maintains the exceptional spool and response of its baby brother but lifts the power cap to over 450whp.

Links to
EFR 6258 information and compressor map

http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/files/pdf/dimensional_reference/efr/EFR%206258-A.pdf

EFR 6758

http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/files/pdf/dimensional_reference/efr/EFR%206758-A.pdf

S-series seems like Borg older setups, running Journal Bearings and such. IMO(since it's not my money) seems like you'd be better off with the EFR series, it'll give you better spool.

Holset, IMO, is kinda the poor mans T3/T4 style turbo. You're going to scarifice some spool up and responsiveness of newer turbos for a lower price. Granted now days Holset are increasing in price since people have been buying them. Back in the early 2000 they were pennies on the dollar as dieseal guys where basically throwing them away, but now they know they are worth $$.

GTX2867R

https://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/turbochargers/gtx2867r-gen-ii

The EFR6258 looks like a nice tubo and falls nicelly bettween the GTX2860R and the GTX2867R.

So it seems if 300Whp seems nice then the 6258 will fit the bill. If your wanting more like 400, then the 2867R or 6758.

[jay]

I have a BW efr on the protege I bought to attempt to replace my crashed-into lil treasure. You cannot get it to fit on a gtr manifold. It interferes with the block. I kludged a homebrew fugly as sin sort of equal length manny to make the turbo fit in the available area. This leave no room for the radiator fan, a problem I'll have to solve at some point.


It does spool up faster than the GT28R in the rallykar, and I think it spools faster than the vj23.

[FE3-323]

I have an evo X turbo sitting around...

[wknd326]

I have a spare hx35 for sale.

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[SgtRauksauff]

I've been doing a lot of cross-reference searching with EFR 6258/6758 and 'miata' and 'mazda' looking for real-world experiences and dyno run comparisons, and have seen a few guys hitting 400 with the 6258, with apparently decent spool, peaking at 24-25psi. Not sure what pistons they have. I almost want to go the 6758 route, which would get me a lot more upper end, but would sacrifice a noticeable amount of torque at the bottom end. I need to figure out what will be needed for an E85 tune vs a regular tune. I'll probably do regular 93 pump most of the time, but maybe bring some e85 for track days.

I really like the low-end torque of the 6258, and not sure if I want to sacrifice it for the top-end overall power of the 6758...

meh. I am rambling now, need to shut down and go home.

--sarge

--sarge

[wknd326]

You need about 1.75 times more fuel flow capacity to maintain safe limits. Borg Warner has a website for housing comparison and engine needs/efficiency. Check it out you can lose many hours fiddling with it.

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[wknd326]

http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/aftermarket/matchbot.aspx

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[SgtRauksauff]

hehe.. yeah, I spent a good chunk of time on the matchbot yesterday doing exactly that!

[Wildfire0310]

So I am having trouble finding more information about which turbo and such, but Heikki Rinta-Koski, who is the two or three times Tail of the dragon Hill climb overall winner. He is running a Borg Warner turbo on his BP powered Locost. I swear I saw a post on FB a while back where he mentioned what size but I can't find it and I want to say he is running an EFR series.

You may want to reach out to him or look up more information. The post I swear was his 7 on the dyno and doing a comparison of the "old" Garrett GT2X versus his new EFR and such. So he may be able to give good real world information on a BP.

So it's another real world race application to go along with Jay's.

[jay]

I bet his header is
WAY
better than mine

[SgtRauksauff]

here's his build thread....

https://www.miataturbo.net/build-threads-57/hrk-s-2013-build-70554/

looks like he upgraded from a Garrett 2560 (332 hp 325 tq) to the EFR 6758 (not sure what hp/tq), with a 4" exhaust,

He's running an '01 VVT motor, decently cleaned-up head, belfab rods, wiseco pistons, and a hell of an intake manifold.