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Can't turn over after sitting a few months (1986 323 B6 SOHC)

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    Can't turn over after sitting a few months (1986 323 B6 SOHC)

    So I'm hopefully well on my way to getting my little 1986 323 back up and running. I used to fire it up every weekend or so starting in May when I took the plates off it. Moved into a condo without parking options, so I figured once every week or two so would be fine. Aside from existing unrelated oil issues I needed more time to fix, all systems go... until about two weeks ago.

    Since then, there's seemingly nothing I can do to get this car started. When the manifold gets a healthy dose of starter fluid, the car stutters as if it wants to start but is running on fumes or nearly nothing... but it never gives it enough to actually turn over and start right now. Comes up continually just shy of "catching" as it were.


    I know one shouldn't try to crank for this length of time, but wanted to demonstrate this phenomenon in a video. Quality is garbage, but audio is all that really matters here anyway:


    Battery:

    This is the strongest cranking car I've ever owned... probably the 650CCA unit it came with. Battery terminals are in fair shape without any corrosion and all ground points with the engine/chassis have been lightly sanded/brushed to ensure good contact. It was charged at/above 90% throughout the testing and work today.

    Fuel:

    I did notice the original fuel pump (now 31 years old) wasn't making any noise at all or humming at all when I pulled the back seat, so I've successfully replaced the strainer, pump assembly, and in-bay fuel filter. I can confirm that the pump is receiving 12V through the connector when you try to start the car, it has a nice hum/vibration to it, and that there is definitely some level of pressure making it to the fuel rail. I can't definitively say whether it's sufficient pressure though.

    Fusible links under the hood appear operational. I did manage to pull out the fuel pump relay, and there appeared to be a random 23 Ohms of resistance between two of the prongs... which I think were the left-most ones when looking at the bottom of the relay. It was too hot to keep investigating this aft, but that's my progress in the fuel department. Given they're rather pricey items, I'd prefer to avoid replacing it if it's easily tested.

    Spark:

    I sprayed with contact cleaner and or wire brushed every single connector and terminal prong I could get my hands on. NGK V-Power plugs are clean, gapped properly, and torqued correctly. Leads are great-looking relatively-new NGKs with healthy resistance levels. No signs of moisture, cracks, or corrosion on any part of the cap/rotor/coil/etc. After some Googling, triple-checked the firing order just in case that was a factor. Plugs, when pulled, appear somewhat-wet with a dark-coloured film that's not quite dark enough to be oil. Should have taken a photo or two.

    Air:

    Relatively new cone filter with an RX-7 adapter - unchanged since it was daily driven. No sign of leaks or cracks anywhere on the factory intake pipe and all clamps/hoses fail to reveal any clues.

    Compression:

    Big if here... given my compression hose and gauge have mysteriously vanished. I think I let a friend borrow them a while ago, so this remains a variable I can't yet test. I can't imagine a way it could have blown the head gasket while randomly idling in a parked driveway here and there, but can't yet rule it out. No sign of interaction between coolant and oil, and clearly I can't check the tail pipe for signs of smoke given it won't start.

    ------------

    Thus, at this point, I'm not really sure where to start when I get back to it tomorrow. I have some ideas, but would really appreciate some suggestions first so I don't continue to elongate my wild goose chase needlessly in this weather. Thanks all!
    Last edited by Aaronbrook37; 09-02-2017, 11:24 PM.

    #2
    VAF connector plugged in/tight?

    Your link didn't work for me...
    1990 Protege 4WD
    GT-X BP26 swap [AT->MT]|Cup holder cut to fit|Synthetic gear oil|Synthetic brake fluid|Corksport SS brake/clutch lines|Mazdaspeed HV oil pump|GT-X front STB|Corksport type I rear STB|Matching full-size spare wheel|Homebrew Brass shifter bushing|Speed Source brass shifter cable bushings|EDM headlights/corners|FMIC|EDM cabin vents

    1 3 5
    ├┼┤
    2 4 R


    Seeking: Canadian 4WD seatbelts.

    Comment


      #3
      Sorry about that. Yep, VAF is plugged in, snug, and corrosion-free. New link added to above post and here - good catch: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xks909ca9v...40314.3gp?dl=0

      Comment


        #4
        Any diagnostic codes? Maybe timing jumped a tooth or two.

        Sorry, it's been a long time. I'm kinda rusty.
        1990 Protege 4WD
        GT-X BP26 swap [AT->MT]|Cup holder cut to fit|Synthetic gear oil|Synthetic brake fluid|Corksport SS brake/clutch lines|Mazdaspeed HV oil pump|GT-X front STB|Corksport type I rear STB|Matching full-size spare wheel|Homebrew Brass shifter bushing|Speed Source brass shifter cable bushings|EDM headlights/corners|FMIC|EDM cabin vents

        1 3 5
        ├┼┤
        2 4 R


        Seeking: Canadian 4WD seatbelts.

        Comment


          #5
          Never tried checking the diagnostic codes, but I'll add that to my list. You're the second person to suggest timing jump, so I'm going to start there a bit later this morning. Probably needs it replaced anyway... car only has 80,000 miles on it with few signs of proactive maintenance.

          Comment


            #6
            It's a rather short list of things that would typically do that.

            Maybe you have two or more problems contributing to it. But don't cross that brirdge unless you have to.
            1990 Protege 4WD
            GT-X BP26 swap [AT->MT]|Cup holder cut to fit|Synthetic gear oil|Synthetic brake fluid|Corksport SS brake/clutch lines|Mazdaspeed HV oil pump|GT-X front STB|Corksport type I rear STB|Matching full-size spare wheel|Homebrew Brass shifter bushing|Speed Source brass shifter cable bushings|EDM headlights/corners|FMIC|EDM cabin vents

            1 3 5
            ├┼┤
            2 4 R


            Seeking: Canadian 4WD seatbelts.

            Comment


              #7
              So the new oil pan and gasket are in successfully. I've also got a fresh re-manufactured distributor to pop in along with fresh spark plugs and wires. Coil seems to test fine, and still no spark. Curiously, my new distributor has a few minor differences in the pronginess of the ignitor and the vacuum advance module/diaphragm. On my old original (which looks to be remanufactured as well), it has a double-vacuum and a three-prong ignitor thingamajig with the wiring harness to boot. On the fresh distributor, it's a single-vacuum and a two-prong ignitor. Does anybody know if either of these is going to continue to cause a headache at all for me? Assuming it's something entirely different, I suppose the distributor could be a non-issue.

              A few other ideas:

              1. Festivas have fuel inertia switches - I gather my 323 has one as well somewhere in the trunk I could check/reset?

              2. Is there an easy-to-access "park switch" in the automatic transmissions on these cars that might be causing issues?

              3. I suspect my ignition switch is starting to cause issues because it'll continue to crank after you disengage the key and remove it sometimes. The starter appears to have been replaced, but I have every reason to suspect the ignition cylinder/switch is original. Any ideas on whether I'd be able to refurbish this unit myself or I'm stuck getting a new ignition assembly from somewhere?

              Thanks everyone for the continued help and support!

              Comment


                #8
                Is the issue that you're not getting spark?
                1990 Protege 4WD
                GT-X BP26 swap [AT->MT]|Cup holder cut to fit|Synthetic gear oil|Synthetic brake fluid|Corksport SS brake/clutch lines|Mazdaspeed HV oil pump|GT-X front STB|Corksport type I rear STB|Matching full-size spare wheel|Homebrew Brass shifter bushing|Speed Source brass shifter cable bushings|EDM headlights/corners|FMIC|EDM cabin vents

                1 3 5
                ├┼┤
                2 4 R


                Seeking: Canadian 4WD seatbelts.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Yep, absolutely nothing so far for whatever reason post-distributor.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    did you ever open up the distributor? did it come with a cap/rotor on it?
                    ---Has ClubProtege helped you in someway? show your support by Contributing--- Click Here---

                    1992- project FE3..... 313 WHP @ 9.3psi




                    I pet my dash when I get into the car..."good car"
                    he actually has a mazda tree, parts grow on it

                    Comment


                      #11
                      The dizzy didn't come with it's own cap/rotor unfortunately.

                      Old with the dual vacuum and three-prong igniter is on the left, and the new with the single vacuum and two-prong igniter is on the right.



                      Getting pretty annoyed with this... igniters cost nearly as much as I could sell this car for, but clearly ordering the entire distributor is no guarantee of getting the correct unit for my wiring harness.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Did you check all of the ground wires. There is one on the bracket sitting on the thermo housing that if not attached there will be no spark iirc.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Ooo smart idea, Clay. Thanks for that! I'll have a quick look, as I suspect it's something pretty small/minor. Will try that while I check in with Rock-Auto about obtaining the correct unit!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Aaronbrook37 View Post
                            So the new oil pan and gasket are in successfully. I've also got a fresh re-manufactured distributor to pop in along with fresh spark plugs and wires. Coil seems to test fine, and still no spark. Curiously, my new distributor has a few minor differences in the pronginess of the ignitor and the vacuum advance module/diaphragm. On my old original (which looks to be remanufactured as well), it has a double-vacuum and a three-prong ignitor thingamajig with the wiring harness to boot. On the fresh distributor, it's a single-vacuum and a two-prong ignitor. Does anybody know if either of these is going to continue to cause a headache at all for me? Assuming it's something entirely different, I suppose the distributor could be a non-issue.

                            A few other ideas:

                            1. Festivas have fuel inertia switches - I gather my 323 has one as well somewhere in the trunk I could check/reset?

                            2. Is there an easy-to-access "park switch" in the automatic transmissions on these cars that might be causing issues?

                            3. I suspect my ignition switch is starting to cause issues because it'll continue to crank after you disengage the key and remove it sometimes. The starter appears to have been replaced, but I have every reason to suspect the ignition cylinder/switch is original. Any ideas on whether I'd be able to refurbish this unit myself or I'm stuck getting a new ignition assembly from somewhere?

                            Thanks everyone for the continued help and support!
                            Numer 3 problem, does it not sound like a sticking solinoid on the starter guys? I ran into that many yrs ago and freak the crap out of me.
                            May not be a sticky switch?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Igniter was definitely the ticket! So, she's up and running. Some videos I recorded for diagnostic purposes:

                              Battery voltage test running at idle. https://www.dropbox.com/s/r1498tfquv...028_081018.mp4

                              Tailpipe rumble/chatter. https://www.dropbox.com/s/triasdmunh...028_081120.mp4

                              After these two, I swapped a coked up O2 sensor for a fresh one and things improved a little.

                              Low transmission fluid and slightly squeaky brakes moving forward and back in the driveway. https://www.dropbox.com/s/7sbl8u8rv8...14324.mp4?dl=0

                              Warm start with chattery low idle. https://www.dropbox.com/s/wzxrb1cvyu...15738.mp4?dl=0

                              I'm thinking the timing may still be wrong - I have to plug both vacuum hoses and disconnect the black connector. Thoughts? Thanks all!

                              Comment

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