brembo conversion?

[beavertime]

well im not gonna get into this arguement about technical stuff, but i think that the best conversion for bigger rotors and calipers would have to be something like a civic big brake kit. You would need to make custom brakcets for the calipers though but the rotor lug pattern is the same.

[silver03p5]

ive come in second sts twice...and i find stock brakes to be sufficent *shrug*




but what do i know...i am just an ig'nant southern boy...im sure ya'll have different autoxing than me!

[charles]

OK, so here's a question for Jesse. I can fade the brakes of a stock WRX wagon with OEM pads and OEM RE-92s. Which do you think would make the difference? The pads, or the tires?

[thunderb0lt]

Are they the same? There are no difference in the calipers, lines, fluid, rotors, pads, weight of car, wheels, tires, etc.?
Again, you are ignorantly assuming things. I autocrossed on OEM pads, rotors, lines and fluid all last summer in two series (about every weekend, sometimes twice a weekend) with OEM wheels and Falken Azenis, I never had any braking issues.*pats you on the back* GO KIA!
Sure it does. The key is operating temperature and tire compound.

Either i'm completely misunderstanding your good intentions or you are actually trying to come off as a know it all little bitch. I hope the latter is not true.

[mike_moss]

Either i'm completely misunderstanding your good intentions or you are actually trying to come off as a know it all little bitch. I hope the latter is not true.

Naw, you got both those avenues covered.

[92_2_fast]

Thank you thunder bolt. That is exactly what I have been saying. And to answer some ?'s no I am not locking them up, when the brakes get hot the peddle gets squishy(do to the fact the brake fluid is not hot as hell and probably boiling), and not ductiong. I have drive many cars after brake swaps and they always stop faster.


p.s. I have flushed my brake fluid so its not dirty fluid.

[mike_moss]

Have you tried upgrading fluid, pads, rotors? (make 110% sure you have no air in your system)

[92_2_fast]

To all... no. I am using DOT 3 brakefluid, oe pads/rotors. I have made 220% sure there is no air in the lines.

[Asura]

OK, so here's a question for Jesse. I can fade the brakes of a stock WRX wagon with OEM pads and OEM RE-92s. Which do you think would make the difference? The pads, or the tires?

depend... as Jesse stated, " is it pad fade or fluid fade?" visual inspection and pyrometer reading may be necessary.
and where/when is it happening?

To all... no. I am using DOT 3 brakefluid, oe pads/rotors. I have made 220% sure there is no air in the lines.

...OE as in Mazda OEM or aftermarket OEM replacement? Most manufacturer OEM pads are good enough for autoX-ing..which is pretty light on brakes usually...

[silver03p5]

^^^ indeed. if you induce brake fade at auto x events you sux0r at teh driving

[JesseSays]

Considering the fact that I have the same calipers and rotors as you guys, I can say for a fact that the stock brakes are not that good. They fade (a VERY scarey thing when it happens) and the performance is not consistant after extensive spritired driving.

What pads are you using? Are your calipers in good working order? Or are the rears frozen like so many are? Are all the sliders working well? How new are the rotors?

Also, it's pretty clear that the guy that claims autoxing won't heat up your brakes either autoX very lightly or has never even tried it. I've won 1st in class (STF) and I can tell from experience that the stock brakes could use some help during autoX.

Ummm, I just got home from SCCA Solo2 Nationals where I placed 5th in E-stock. I *think* that I've got a decent notion on how to drive, and what works with autocross. If you're *OVERHEATING* your brakes at an autocross, you've ****ed up in either driving, or equipment. It's really that simple. If you *HEAT* your brakes up, that's a good thing, and you've done well. Simple fact that is in EVERY class that allows brakes, the top level guys are at least thinking or have already either downsized their brakes or swiss-cheesed the rotors to reduce weight, and because thermal capacity isn't important. Check out FSP VW's, since they seem to like that idea the most.

Also, the fact that the stockers can lock up your tires doesn't mean they are as good as it gets. I agree with a lot of things Jesse posts 'cause he's usually logical..... but not this time.... sorry. My saab comes stock with 13" brakes in the front and that car stops on a dime although it's 500 lbs heavier than my sephia. Keep in mind that I can EASILY lock up the brakes on both cars.

tires, alignment, brake bias, weight, weight bias, wheelbase, etc etc etc.

Bigger rotors give you increased surface area resulting in larger heat distribution and faster cooling. (If you are familiar with heatsinks used on electronic components, you can easily see how that is true). This usually also results in better fade resistance.

Time for class... this is all for now.

This is correct, bigger rotors have far more thermal capacity. However, like has been said, for the intended purposes, ie... autocross and street use, the thermal capacity of the brakes should NEVER be reached if you're using GOOD pads, fresh fluid, and well working calipers.

And LONG before I thought about spending big money on some huge brakes, I'd put NACA ducts in my front bumper and run some brake cooling ducts into my rotors to disipate heat for 1/10th the price.

[JesseSays]

OK, so here's a question for Jesse. I can fade the brakes of a stock WRX wagon with OEM pads and OEM RE-92s. Which do you think would make the difference? The pads, or the tires?

WRX brakes suck...


Tires will help you the most. At least for the first stop. The 2nd time you try to stop that 3100 lb box, upgraded pads may be the ticket.


BIGTIME difference with just tires though. We had a Subaru event where I ran a bone stock Wagon against one of the top level DS WRX drivers in his car on Hoosiers, and the braking difference was absurd. Where he was shifting to 3rd to keep accelerating was where I started getting on the brakes.


NOTE: Subaru WRX ABS is also the worst thing I've ever experienced...freaking ice mode crap...

[mike_moss]

To all... no. I am using DOT 3 brakefluid, oe pads/rotors. I have made 220% sure there is no air in the lines.

That's cool...why not try upgrading them first then? Pads will make the biggest difference followed by fluid and rotors.

Pads are up to you. Hawk, PBR, EBC, etc.

Brembo rotors have better vents, so you may want to pick up a set of those. Slotted/drilled I'd say are more aesthetic, but if anything, I'd stay away from drilled...they tend to crack if not drilled properly and if driven hard.

IIRC, Ford makes a 550-deg. fluid that's just as cheap as regular fluids, so that shouldn't empty your pocket (it's like $6/qt I think).

[JesseSays]

Thank you thunder bolt. That is exactly what I have been saying. And to answer some ?'s no I am not locking them up, when the brakes get hot the peddle gets squishy(do to the fact the brake fluid is not hot as hell and probably boiling), and not ductiong. I have drive many cars after brake swaps and they always stop faster.


p.s. I have flushed my brake fluid so its not dirty fluid.

a) you say oe pads... you mean you actually went to Mazda Dealer and got the original pads, correct? If thats what you're using, why are you thinking about going with larger rotors and calipers and not just upgrading pads? Cobalt, Carbotech, Porterfield, Hawk, Ferrerdo....etc. All make very good pads that'll still bite hard as very high temps.

b) when the pedal gets squishy, does the car still stop? If that's the case, you've boiled the fluid. If it stays firm, then it's the pads.

c) I'd still buid up some ducts LONG before i started checking my bank account to go with bigger rotors and calipers if I still had fade after fresh rotors, good performance pads, new or SS lines, and good fluid.

d) Get some ValvolineSyn DOT4 brake fluid. About the best stuff you can get anywhere and it's dirt cheap.

[silver03p5]

^^^ from the mouth of god passed down to jesse