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    #1

    Bleeding isn't helping squishy brakes

    Obviously the solution to a squishy brake pedal is to bleed the brakes. I've bleed the brakes a lot. I fabricated a pressure bleeder and I have run tons of fluid through the system. I have also replaced the master cylinder. As far as I can tell, I'm not leaking any fluid. So this is extremely vexing to me.

    Here's the part that's really weird; it's not squishy all the time. If I'm using the brakes a lot the pedal starts to stiffen up and I've got all of the braking power I need. But if I'm taking an off ramp, for example, and mash the brakes the pedal is really squishy and I can't lock up the tires. This is in contrast to when I'm left foot braking and can lock up the tires easily.

    Before I start randomly replacing components I'd like to know if anyone has had a similar problem. Can the brake booster cause this problem? (I don't know how it could and I'm not having vacuum problems) The only things really left to replace are the calipers and I don't really want to randomly throw money at them.
    Loose nut behind the wheel...
    Tags: None
    #2
    Every escort, protege, mx3, and 323 I've driven has this problem. I'm pretty sure it's normal for us, as I've NEVER found a bg without this "problem". I don't know why they're like this, and I just live with it. Mine have been as bad as going straight to the floor (after sitting for a month of two), but a few pumps later, I can lock them up.
    My family has lots of bg's!
    2003 Ford Escort ZX2: Project car/future daily driver. Built Ford Tough (With Mazda Stuff)
    1999 Escort ZX2: Daily driver/beater. Going to be replaced by the '03 next summer.
    2000 Escort ZX2 S/R: bought wrecked, going to use as parts car
    1992 Protege LX: My old race car. Just a wrecked shell right now. Waiting for scrap to go up so that I can get rid of it.
    1992 Mazda 323: Race car
    1992 Escort Gt: My grandpa's old race car
    1994 Escort GT: My grandpa's new race car.
    Parts cars; 1993 Escort Gt, 1995 Escort lx

    Comment

      #3
      Nope, that ain't normal. Neither of my cars does that crap. You need to look at calipers, you need to make sure your new master cylinder isn't a POS Chinese crapbasket, and you need to make sure you don't have a bent rotor or loose bearing that's letting the rotor bang against the pads, backing them off and making for a couple soft pedalsquishes before they take up the slack and go back to work again.

      A POS mastercyl can recirc the fluid and do what you describe, brand new straight outta the box. Ask me how I know....
      '90 AWD Protege, full GTR drivetrain swap, ~320 whp daily driver, RIP, and
      '90 AWD Protege, yet another GTR swap, Open class rallycar with a Toyota GT4 gearbox swap, thus crossing the line between hobby and mental illness. And a Brabus E55 K8, removing all doubt.
      http://www.wihandyman.com/forum/vbpi...?do=view&g=110
      http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2599486

      Comment

        #4
        That does sound strange... If your left foot breaking while the rpms are higher then idle and it locks up I'ld say re-check your vacume lines or possily you missed something or made an error when changing your master cylinder/booster?

        Were the calipers removed at any time? If they were re-installed on the wrong sides the bleeder valve will be at the bottom side of the pot and could be to low to allow air to be bled out???

        dunno for sure man, good luck


        ^ I've also had brand new out of the box fail
        Last edited by CBlaze; 03-24-2010, 02:08 PM.
        '91 Mazda Protege GT/ Completely re-built engine w/.020 head shave, intake/exhaust P&P & 3 angle valve job, 2.25 full custom exhaust, RX-7 AFM, K&N Cone, 18* Timing advance, exhintake cam mod w/Fly'n Miata adjustables, Custom short shifter, CenterForce clutch, lightened flywheel, HAWK pads on all 4, Motegi Racing 8 spoke 16"s w/205/45/ZR16 rubber, VentShade window visors, lower lip spoiler, 4" driving lights w/halo's. MX-3 center console & Black carpet swap w/2 layers dynomat type insulation.
        Soon to come... Garret T25 turbo, DSM injectors, GTX ecu (Needed) SAFC (Needed) FMIC (Needed)

        '91 Toyota Soarer GT-TL/ Stock 1JZ-GTE, K&N drop in filter, Gewalt Evolution deep dish 17"s, Nardi steering wheel

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        Comment

          #5
          Just wait for the WD-40 on the rotors to melt away, youll be fine.

          Comment

            #6
            I have had this problem
            and still do

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by jay View Post
              Nope, that ain't normal. Neither of my cars does that crap. You need to look at calipers, you need to make sure your new master cylinder isn't a POS Chinese crapbasket, and you need to make sure you don't have a bent rotor or loose bearing that's letting the rotor bang against the pads, backing them off and making for a couple soft pedalsquishes before they take up the slack and go back to work again.

              A POS mastercyl can recirc the fluid and do what you describe, brand new straight outta the box. Ask me how I know....
              I thought that Cardone was pretty good. I may be wrong.

              I'll have to look into the rotors. My fronts are new since August but the rears could probably use replacing. Wouldn't a bent rotor feel like a warped one? I'll have to look into the wheel bearing thing. It feels like I've got something loose but I haven't narrowed down what it is yet. It could be a wheel bearing...
              Loose nut behind the wheel...

              Comment

                #8
                If you have rear drums make sure that your adjusters are moving freely and don't have worn teeth. I hate the teeth rear adjusted because you can't manually adjust them like the crew kind.

                Every other car with drums I have worked on has the screw kind and you can adjust them with a flat screw driver thought a hole in the back of the drum, you don't even have to take off the tire off.
                Last edited by ivan15; 03-25-2010, 04:51 PM. Reason: spelling

                Comment

                  #9
                  Warped rotor will show up in the brake pedal but a loose wheelbearing won't. I don't know Cardone, look at the box the thing came in if you still have it and find out where it came from. China bad, reman in Chine even worse. I think they rebore the things by hand with a ****ing rasp...
                  '90 AWD Protege, full GTR drivetrain swap, ~320 whp daily driver, RIP, and
                  '90 AWD Protege, yet another GTR swap, Open class rallycar with a Toyota GT4 gearbox swap, thus crossing the line between hobby and mental illness. And a Brabus E55 K8, removing all doubt.
                  http://www.wihandyman.com/forum/vbpi...?do=view&g=110
                  http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2599486

                  Comment

                    #10
                    also look @ the checkvalve in the vac line to the booster .. they are easy to crush ( if you look closely @ the line you will see directional arrows on it )


                    Comment

                      #11
                      I'm surprised no one's mentioned the brake lines yet. The rubber portion is flexy to begin with, and age wears them out more. A replacement set (of OEM lines, not stainless) shouldn't be too expensive, and might just do the trick.

                      By the way, good way to check for bad wheel bearing: jack up the wheel(s) in question, grab tire at 12 and 6, like on a clock. Yank back and forth. If excessive movement is noticed, you've probably got a bad bearing. Check for bad tie rods or other suspension bits at 3 and 9 in the same manner.
                      1995 626: daily beater, mostly stock. Future NASA racer?

                      Next up: Speed6 or RX-8

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Hmm, yeah , worn old rubber lines will expand like one o' them ball park franks than plump when ya cook em, but won't do the "it's not squishy all the time" thing. They'll do the full time squishy thing instead...
                        '90 AWD Protege, full GTR drivetrain swap, ~320 whp daily driver, RIP, and
                        '90 AWD Protege, yet another GTR swap, Open class rallycar with a Toyota GT4 gearbox swap, thus crossing the line between hobby and mental illness. And a Brabus E55 K8, removing all doubt.
                        http://www.wihandyman.com/forum/vbpi...?do=view&g=110
                        http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2599486

                        Comment

                          #13
                          I thought i remembered reading something about if the e-brake isn't adjusted correctly, it'll make for some weird pedal feel?

                          My car suffers from the same symptoms, but i'm sure that's partially caused by a leaky passenger real caliper.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            yep it'll affect pedal feel.

                            leaky caliper will cause all sorts of issues.
                            -Jack

                            ONTARIO MAZDA CLUB! Join! https://www.facebook.com/groups/500055016671733/

                            91 626 LX - basically stock and pretty slow still
                            http://www.clubprotege.com/forum/sho...my-GD-626-LX-)

                            01 E53 3.0i - FOR SALE! pm if interested

                            91 USDM Protege LX - SOLD! turbo/manifold up for sale!
                            http://www.clubprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46606

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Originally posted by ajax View Post
                              I thought that Cardone was pretty good. I may be wrong.

                              I'll have to look into the rotors. My fronts are new since August but the rears could probably use replacing. Wouldn't a bent rotor feel like a warped one? I'll have to look into the wheel bearing thing. It feels like I've got something loose but I haven't narrowed down what it is yet. It could be a wheel bearing...
                              I recently installed a new cardon master brake cylinder and have had no problems with it.

                              As long as you bench bled it properly before installing it, you shouldn't have any problems with it.

                              Here is the one I bought recently:
                              Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance
                              http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Brake-Master-Cylinder-Cardone-Select_20350071-P_230_R|GRPBRHYAMS_755203891___

                              Comment

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