Difficult starts...

[Intruder]

Hey guys,

My car has been having trouble starting ever since it got cold here. I am almost 100% sure the issue is cold related since it happened on the first cold day. My car would start, sputter and die in the matter of 2 seconds. As it got colder, the problem got worse. Now I have to keep turning the key for 10 minutes before the car starts.

Here's a video showing what I have to deal with every morning: bad_start.wmv (5.8MB) (Right click and Save As...)

The first thing I did was to change the spark plugs and inspect their condition. Not that I was hoping the new spark plugs would solve the problem, but changing them wasn't gonna hurt anyway.

Here are pics of the plugs:









What I noticed when changing the plugs:

1st cyl. plug did NOT smell like gas.
2nd cyl. plug smelled like gas A LOT
3rd cyl. plug smelled like gas A LOT
4th cyl. plug did NOT smell like gas, and had oil on it

The oil thing is not new. The same amount of oil was present last time I changed the spark plugs a year ago. I've had low(er) compression in my 4th cyl. for a long time now, but I have not ventured into fixing it, and I will not do so in the future. Hence the BP swap I'm hoping for.

Anyway...
I ordered a fuel pressure test kit, and I should have it within a week.
I also ordered a fuel filter just in case...

I need your HELP!

[turbonium959]

I would check your wires, see if the weather caused some cracks, but thats just a start. You can check many other things also: battery, cap and rotor, fuel pump, etc. However, your sparks look ok to me.

[Intruder]

I'm still waiting for those tools, but in the mean time I checked to see if my spark plugs produce a spark while the car is NOT starting. All of them DO spark. That eliminates the wires and the spark plugs, and leads me to believe that the disty. cap and rotor are also fine.

Aleksey, did you look at the vid I posted? My battery is obviously fine. I can turn the starter for 15 minutes before the car starts.

[loganss]

That sounds like my engine did before it just gave up entirely and just didn't start. I was able to start it up for a while but eventually turning the key just would get the engine going.

Does any of the stuff I put in the z5 owners post here thread sound like it could remedy your problem?

[pigeon]

soon as he gets his fuel pressure tester and his compression kit we'll be able to help more cause we'll know his compression... and when he's getting fuel pressure

ignition is already ruled out... but so many other stuff isnt

till then he's jus gotta leave home 5 minutes earlier
lol

[Intruder]

I just noticed that my car will start sooner if I do NOT step on the gas pedal when I'm trying to start it. A couple of times I had the feeling that the engine started running and as soon as I stepped on the accelerator the engine died. WTF?

Edwin, how do I check for stuck-open injectors?
ECT sensor? Sorry...

[Intruder]

One more thing which I find extremely puzzling: My CEL won't light up. As soon as my engine started I had the feeling that only two cylinders were firing, then 20-30 seconds later I felt like a third cylinder started firing because the engine started to run a bit smoother and more "regular". At this point it was like "normal". My 4th cylinder is really messed up, and this is what my car usually felt like when I started it before.

All this time my idle was VERY rough, BUT my CEL did not light up. Why?

[beetle_orange]

intruder,

i noticed you were pumping the gas pedal a lot. in another car that i had i was told NEVER to do this but instead pump it ONCE and step on the gas pedal all the way and immediately let go once the engine starts. they said not to pump the gas pedal was because you are actually flooding the engine with unburnt fuel. but like what i said it was from a previous car and it may or may not work for you.

[charles]

intruder,

i noticed you were pumping the gas pedal a lot. in another car that i had i was told NEVER to do this but instead pump it ONCE and step on the gas pedal all the way and immediately let go once the engine starts. they said not to pump the gas pedal was because you are actually flooding the engine with unburnt fuel. but like what i said it was from a previous car and it may or may not work for you.

That's for carb'd cars, as they mix fuel and air mechanically.

Having the pedal all the way down during start might make the car not inject fuel, though. You'd have to look through the second gen documentation.

The ECT sensor.. didn't I show that one to you? It checks the coolant temp. Pretty easy to replace, sensor might be a little pricey (prob $60 from the dealer, try mazdaformance.com). KLK1-18-840 is the part # for both 1.5L and 1.8L for '97. (All years are probably the same, don't feel like checking, though).

[Intruder]

I knew the one about the carburated engines. Thanks though, Charlie.

I'll look into the ECT sensor.

BTW, does my fuel rail (or whatever) have a "Fuel Pressure Test Port" (Schrader Valve)??!?! I went looking for a fuel pressure test kit locally, and I found a couple. One at Autozone listed all the compatible vehicles and read "1.8L Ford Escort not included". The one at Kragens had all Import vehicles listed 1982 to 1998 but for vehicles equipped with a "Fuel Pressure Test Port" (Schrader Valve). What am I looking for?

[Intruder]

Okay, I got the fuel pressure thing cleared. I found the instructions for this in in my FSM by accident. It looks like I have to disconnect the fuel line going out of the fuel filter and hook up the pressure tester there. There is no Schrader valve, and now I know why the Autozone kit won't work -- because it did not have the hoses and clamps required to do the test in the abscense of a Schrader valve.

[charles]

I thought you were going to bed at like 11:30...? haha

Here's what Intruder said over the phone, IIRC, he's on his way to school now though.

60, 80, 70, 180

Then after running the engine a few minutes

70, 90, 80, 190

or something like that... basically; very low in three cylinders.

Also he threw a CEL, but you have to rent the Autozone scan tool instead of them doing it for you, which is $190 deposit and he didn't have.

[Intruder]

Here are the actual numbers. Slightly different from what Charles posted above, but I was going by memory when I spoke to him on the phone...

Before I attempted to start the engine:

Cyl. #1 ----- Cyl. #2 ----- Cyl. #3 ----- Cyl. #4
180psi ----- 55 psi ----- 90 psi ----- 60 psi

Then I restored all connections, and after 3-4 minutes of trying the car finally started. I let it run for a minute, shut it off, and tested compression again.

Cyl. #1 ----- Cyl. #2 ----- Cyl. #3 ----- Cyl. #4
193psi ----- 92 psi ----- 130 psi ----- 100 psi

I can immediately see a trend here. All bad cylinders went up by 40 psi after the car started. Any way to know if this is a head gasket or anything else which is easy/cheap to repair? There's no way I am going to spend $1000 on rebuilding this engine.

[pigeon]

there ya go man

when the car runs and oil goes thru and everything heats up and expands, you're getting some of your compression back
but when its cold, it takes a bunch of effort for it to start

its not a headgasket
and its unlikely that its rings because theres no smoke coming out and you said you're not loosing any oil

i could almost guarantee its a burnt valve, or a worn valve seat, or a bad valve seal
valve valve valve valve valve

it could be a bad valve seal or bad rings in cylinder 4.. based on the oil on that plug

i think im right bout the Z5's valvetrain being a pile-o-crap

anyways, i'll stop rambling now
and yes, there is a way to know where the leak is coming from

it's cleverly called a leakdown test
what you do is borrow an air compressor from a friend or something, something thats capable of getting up to a constant 125 psi

for some reason i bet charles will know someone with one if he doesent have one himself

you disconnect the quick connect from your compression tester and you put it onto air compressor hose

make sure the cylinder you're testing is at top dead center of the compression stroke, make sure the engine is in neutral and the key is 100% removed from the ignition... and pressurize that cylinder

then you walk around the car listening for a loud hiss

pull off the oil cap, if air is pissing out of there you got a ring or a valve seal leak or even a headgasket
then you remove the tester from that cylinder, squirt a few drops of oil in the cylinder and try again... if the hiss gets quieter... then its your rings...because the oil is making it slightly harder for the leak to get by.... if its still hissing loud, then its the valve seal or the headgasket <-- we'll test for this next

if its hissing out of the rad capl, its a headgasket

if its hissing out of your air filter, its your intake valve
if its hissing out of your tail pipe its your exhaust valve

then end.
go do a leakdown test now!

and make sure your key isnt in the on position, and make sure its not in gear
cause it is possible that the compressed air could turn the engine over and lurch the car forward into your knees

[pigeon]

oh an either way you're gonna be spending about 500 MINIMUM if you want to fix it

and since i have a feeling this is a recurring problem with certain cars, you might get the problemb back!

(soon as we find out whats bad, swaaaaaaap the bp, and mail me your valve springs)

thats what im doing, i give up on this ****box engine