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**Marc93lx** · 03-09-2006, 05:46 PM

Turbocharged engines don't have headers.

From what I've heard, the Z5 is a waste of time and money. If it was worth it don't you think you would see fewer BP swaps and more built 1.5's?

**95Protege** · 03-09-2006, 06:09 PM

I am actually building my z5 instead of a bp....with bigger pistons and beefier valves and springs...maybe then in the future a turbo.

**pigeon** · 03-09-2006, 06:10 PM

- majority of Z5's out there are not independant DOHC... the cams are connected together with a chain inside the valve cover
- flakey valve train (many ppl have burnt valves)

All those people that are on the 'brink' of turbocharging their Z5's blew their first Z5's
if you want to be different, keep doing what you're doing... but you've been warned
if you want to be fast swap in a BP or a B6

**z5power** · 03-09-2006, 06:16 PM

Just because someone says it's a waste of money, doesn't mean it is. I want to know if someone has or has evidence on why it sucks. Also, sometimes people will see an engine with a higher liter count and decide that the smaller one is a waste. So, I just want to be educated on it cause I know a BP varies in price, but then you need ECU, wiring harness and anything else to make it fit and sit.

Headers, exhaust manifold, it's all the same to me. I was just speaking of using the exhaust manifold, attach turbo and then custom exhaust to the back of the car.

**z5power** · 03-09-2006, 06:17 PM

Thanks pigeon about the valve train info. So, there is no way to strengthen that weakness?

**Project Protoge** · 03-09-2006, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by pigeon

- majority of Z5's out there are not independant DOHC... the cams are connected together with a chain inside the valve cover
- flakey valve train (many ppl have burnt valves)

All those people that are on the 'brink' of turbocharging their Z5's blew their first Z5's
if you want to be different, keep doing what you're doing... but you've been warned
if you want to be fast swap in a BP or a B6

Just to clear it up a little, my engine was smoking before I turbocharged it. That is why I decided to turbo it and tune it with the bad engine since I was getting a new engine for the turbo kit. Good point on the valve train though these engines have a weak valve train and an upgrade is a good idea. We have never really gotten around to finding performance springs, and idealy some sodium filled valves. None the less I havn't had a problem with my turbo since I beleive last December. The only reason I havn't had it on lately is I am confident in the z5 handling it that I am putting a quicker spooling turbo on and a larger intercooler so I can hit boost quicker and produce power throughout the rpm range, instead of just top end.

**Project Protoge** · 03-09-2006, 06:56 PM

I should also say that if given the money I would choose a bp and then turbocharge that for best performance since their is more aftermarket as well as a much better designed valve train.

**z5power** · 03-09-2006, 09:15 PM

Is it possible to get about 120 hp from the z5 naturally?

Has anyone ever replaced the throttle body to see if there was any performance gain. I just figure you would see "decent" gain if you open up the tb(and intake manifold to match), have cold air intake and open the exhaust from the manifold on back. Come on, Sprints, w/stock turbo, had a decently peppy engine and they were a 1 or 1.3 liter. I just can't believe there isn't some power to be gained from the engine.

I am with you on the swap idea, if I do a swap then a turbo WILL be going in with it.

**Project Protoge** · 03-09-2006, 09:41 PM

It's hard to say what the overall gain would be since I havn't dinoed yet but I have all those mods plus a port and polish/gasket match. It is pretty snappy and my friend with the turbo talon likes driving it but it is know where as fast as with the turbo. I would say 120hp is possible but I don't think it will be at the wheels. I beleive someone had their z5 dinoed stock and it was only like 75hp at the wheels.

**pigeon** · 03-09-2006, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by Project Protoge

It's hard to say what the overall gain would be since I havn't dinoed yet but I have all those mods plus a port and polish/gasket match. It is pretty snappy and my friend with the turbo talon likes driving it but it is know where as fast as with the turbo. I would say 120hp is possible but I don't think it will be at the wheels. I beleive someone had their z5 dinoed stock and it was only like 75hp at the wheels.

Dont take anything that I say as disrespect or an insult to your abilities. I think you've done wonders for the Z5 powered community, and I respect your work, and I feel that given the money a reliable and powerful Z5 can be built, either naturally aspirated or turbocharged. You went through a lot of work to get to the point you are at right now, but you know and I kno and any reader of your thread knows that it wasnt easy.

However, I do know NO BHA owner on this board ****s money... so people want bang for the buck. All these people here inquiring about their Z5's arent going to spend $4000 on a nicely built turbo with the proper preparations and engine management.

As I said, if you want to be fast get the BP or a variant of it. If you want to be different, then go on with the Z5 work... theres nothing more to say

Originally posted by z5power

Just because someone says it's a waste of money, doesn't mean it is. I want to know if someone has or has evidence on why it sucks. Also, sometimes people will see an engine with a higher liter count and decide that the smaller one is a waste. So, I just want to be educated on it cause I know a BP varies in price, but then you need ECU, wiring harness and anything else to make it fit and sit.

If you want to be educated on it and if you want to read evidence, SEARCH
I've rebuilt 2 Z5 heads so far, im not talking out of my ass.

**z5power** · 03-09-2006, 11:29 PM

I take no offense and I don't believe you are talking out your back side. The only person who has bothered me is Marc93lx. He posted with no info, just a general statement seen all over this forum. I have searched, just have not had the best results, so I figured the people who KNOW would come out and share the obvious that I may have missed.

Now I kinda know that 120 is not really a possibilty with out turbo on this engine. So I thank you all for your input.

My main purpose of this thread was to get some actual reasons as everyone only state that the engine sucks for power. Atleast people now said that, in essence, if you want bang for your buck then do a swap.

Again, thanks.

**z5power** · 03-09-2006, 11:30 PM

btw project, I love the work you have done to this point.

**Project Protoge** · 03-10-2006, 12:24 AM

I didn't mean to make is sound like I was snapping at you Pigeon, I was jus making sure people know it is possible if they really want to go that route. As far as turbo vs bp, the bp swap is always going to be a more reliable power increase. The turbo will be more bang for the buck though if you properly supply the amount of fuel needed. I am testing a new boost/extra injector controller I made for my new setup, and if it turns out good I will let you guys know how to make one. It is not too fancy but will be adjustable and cheap to make, compared to other alternatives. If you try to use rrfpr or fmu on a z5 you can't run much boost and larger injectors make it way to rich out of boost since the stock fuel pressure is so low on the z5 that you really can't turn it down to compensate.

**pigeon** · 03-10-2006, 01:14 AM

read this thread:

http://www.wihandyman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18337

dont get upset at marc, he's just trying to inform you of information that could be found if you just read the sticky in the general BHA forum

for the record he doesent even own a 2nd gen

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Built 1.5 vs 1.8 swap

Built 1.5 vs 1.8 swap

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