brakes.... help......

[kosmo1990]

hey i got a 03 LX, is it possible to do a rear disk brake swap. and also would i have to go to a 5 lug?

[1Mazda323Fan]

Yes, and as far as I know, yes. Somebody else can help me with whether or not you need to convert to 5-lug. Now, do you want to do it? Probably not. Honestly, unless your turning your car into a full on track slut, save yourself the time and money and keep the rear drums. Then invest the money in better pads and tires.

[XelderX]

If anyone wants...I have most of what you need to do a rear disc swap and full 5 lug conversion from my totaled Protege5 still sitting in the garage.

[ls six]

hey i got a 03 LX, is it possible to do a rear disk brake swap. and also would i have to go to a 5 lug?

If your going that far try and track down the parts for the 99+ 626 V6 sedan.

I did the conversion on my MX6 and the upgrade is awesome.

If you allready have the standard Protege disc brakes then all you need are the rotors and front and rear caliper/bracket assembly for each corner.

For performance pads any thing for the 92-97 MX6 or probe or the 93-02 626
will fit.

Standard front rotors for the MX6 are 10.2". The upgrade rotors are 11".
The rears are similarly upgraded.

This is basicaly the MSprotege braking system. It even uses the same rotor PN,s.

[Dragondima]

I don't wanna sound like the clueless one but... i'm clueless... why would you want to do a rear brake swap? I just don't see the benefits.

[ls six]

I don't wanna sound like the clueless one but... i'm clueless... why would you want to do a rear brake swap? I just don't see the benefits.

I haven't driven an mx6 with big front brakes but I can tell you that besides being slightly stronger and having much more thermal capacity my car with this setup retains a perfect OEM brake balance.

That's with the stock prop valve. Just upgrading the fronts will bias the brakes to the front and increase nose dive and can reduce stopping distances because the fronts will lock long before the rears approach lockup.

With a mild upgrade like this one it shouldn't be a huge issue but it will amplify the factory tune that doesn't use all the rear braking potential.

The factory tuned the car so the rear will never lock before the front as a safety precaution but maximum braking performance is had by tuning the rears to lock as close to the fronts as possible.

As an example for a few years the MX6 Probe community has been using stock 99+ protege rear calipers and pads because they use slightly larger pads. This brings the overall F/R bias closer and noticeably improves performance because the rears are doing more work than before.

It reduces nose dive and makes rotating the rear much easier on a track.
It's not enough to cause the rear to lock up so it's perfectly safe.

You could use the rear proto brakes with the 626 fronts but I dont know if there is an improvement there or not. The 626 rears use the same pads as the MX6 and probe but have more leverage. The proto rears have more pad area but use smaller rotors. The same as all 93-97 probes/MX6's and 93-97 626's.

I dont think there would be much of a difference but I like using all matching parts. I'll use different pad compounds front and rear to fine tune the bias.

Here's my HOW TO: http://www.mx6.com/forums/2g-mx6-oth...grade-how.html

Here's I4MX6's thread:http://www.mx6.com/forums/2g-mx6-gen...-problems.html


Here's Heathers famous Mitsu upgrade: http://www.mx6.com/forums/2g-mx6-oth...e-upgrade.html

If you wanted to swap in old school spindles up front you can use legacy twin pot calipers.
http://www.mx6.com/forums/1g-mx6-oth...tall-done.html You'll need 88-92 626/mx6/probe front spindles.

The 5 lug 99+ protege Hubs/spindles are the same as the 93+ GE chassis front and rear (with 4wheel discs) So any thing that works on the GE cars will work on the protege. The protege rear caliper's/pads and brackets have to be used together and will not "mix" with any other companents so you have to choose either larger pads or larger rotors.


Good luck.

[1Mazda323Fan]

That's with the stock prop valve. Just upgrading the fronts will bias the brakes to the front and increase nose dive and can reduce stopping distances because the fronts will lock long before the rears approach lockup.

Funny, I just put EBC pads on the front of my car, and I don't notice any more dive than normal. Simply changing brake components will not change the brake bias. Brake bias means the amount of pressure in the lines going to the brakes at each end of the car. You need a brake proportioning valve to adjust the bias. Oh, and even if locking up the brakes makes you stop shorter, I'd much rather have control of my car while braking, as well as tires that aren't flat spotted. But that's just me.

It reduces nose dive

Somehow I doubt that. Stiffer springs and struts and some trick anti-dive/anti-squat suspension bits reduce front end dive, not rear disc brakes. Also adjusting some of the brake bias to the rear would help, but realistically, no one but serious track junkies should be changing their brake bias.

In response to Dragondima, and anyone else willing to read this, there really are no real benefits of a rear brake swap, for street driving at least. On the track, discs would probably be preferable as they allow for more precise modulation of the brakes vs. drums, and also take longer to become useless from heat buildup. Don't bother swapping to discs in the rear if all you do is drive on the street and take the occasional hot lap at the local track. Especially if that track is really a drag strip. Then all you have is something cool to show your friends, a wasted weekend or two, and a lot less money in your wallet. Instead, spend the money on things that will actually help you stop shorter. Better pads and tires.

Excellent words of advice passed on to me from a wise friend: if you have to ask 'Is it worth it to.....', then it probably isn't.

[ls six]

[QUOTE=1Mazda323Fan;473721]

Funny, I just put EBC pads on the front of my car, and I don't notice any more dive than normal. Simply changing brake components will not change the brake bias. Brake bias means the amount of pressure in the lines going to the brakes at each end of the car. You need a brake proportioning valve to adjust the bias.

OK first of all brake bias is more than just the hydraulic pressure front and rear. Replacing the front pads with blocks of greased wood will definitely adjust the bias to the rear as the front will have practically no brake force despite having more hydraulic pressure. Any change in tires, compound or swept area will affect "real world" bias if not matched end to end.

If you use the greens then the difference probably isn't noticeable and more aggressive pads than that matched with stock rears will introduce more variables than you have probably considered like where in the operational heat range do the new pads work best versus the stockers.

AOh, and even if locking up the brakes makes you stop shorter, I'd much rather have control of my car while braking, as well as tires that aren't flat spotted. But that's just me

Um? locked brakes offer no control at all. And will flat spot the tires. Better balanced brakes will extend the lockup threshold and offer better control.

Somehow I doubt that. Stiffer springs and struts and some trick anti-dive/anti-squat suspension bits reduce front end dive, not rear disc brakes. Also adjusting some of the brake bias to the rear would help, but realistically, no one but serious track junkies should be changing their brake bias.

All the above will also help but increasing the work load of the rear brakes will reduce dive. Period.

In response to Dragondima, and anyone else willing to read this, there really are no real benefits of a rear brake swap, for street driving at least. in your wallet. Instead, spend the money on things that will actually help you stop shorter. Better pads and tires.

Agreed. But...

I plan to track my car and will likely push the limits of this setup but it only cost me about $50 to do this upgrade over a much needed brake job with stock replacement parts.

[1Mazda323Fan]

OK first of all brake bias is more than just the hydraulic pressure front and rear. Replacing the front pads with blocks of greased wood will definitely adjust the bias to the rear as the front will have practically no brake force despite having more hydraulic pressure. Any change in tires, compound or swept area will affect "real world" bias if not matched end to end.

Actually, the brake bias is the hydraulic pressure split front to rear. Watch/read the following.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKScCLCh70U

http://www.autospeed.co.nz/cms/A_0645/article.html

http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/brake_bias_calculator.html

True, if you replaced the front pads with blocks of greased wood, they would become useless and the rear brakes would take over the job of actually stopping the car, but the actual pressure applied to the pads, or blocks of wood in this case, would remain the same. Just because you put wood blocks, or pieces of cheese, or carbon ceramic pads on your car doesn't mean that there will be any change in the pressure put on them from the pistons. Only that the carbon ceramic pads will stop the car significantly better than wood or cheese. Could race compound pads upset the balance of your car? Absolutely. Which is why they are a bad choice for the street.

If you use the greens then the difference probably isn't noticeable and more aggressive pads than that matched with stock rears will introduce more variables than you have probably considered like where in the operational heat range do the new pads work best versus the stockers.

I have actually considered most of those variables, which is why I went with the Greenstuff pads. They Yellows probably would have worked okay, but probably are too grabby for the street. The Reds are right out, as they are race only and will definitely require more heat than I could realistically, or legally at least, build up on my daily commute. For street driving, a pad slightly more aggressive than stock will more than suffice. The final choice, though, is left entirely up to the person buying the pads. I'm not here to tell people they need to buy this pad over this other one. I'm just making my recommendations based on what people will really be using their cars for, rather than buying something because they saw it in an ad and thought it looked cool and had lots of advertising fluff (Guaranteed to make your car stop from 60 in 75 feet!!) or was for race cars only, as race brakes on a street car are almost as bad as blocks of wood for pads.

All the above will also help but increasing the work load of the rear brakes will reduce dive. Period.

Okay, I will concede this point to you. I was quite in error in my previous post.

I plan to track my car and will likely push the limits of this setup but it only cost me about $50 to do this upgrade over a much needed brake job with stock replacement parts.

As I said before, unless you are going to track your car (which was a general ' you', not you specifically), then a rear brake swap is probably unnecessary. For the cost of the necessary parts for the swap and time invested in actually doing the swap, upgraded front brakes and better, stickier and possibly wider tires would be more than sufficient. Since you, specifically, are going to track your car with regular frequency, then the swap makes sense. Most people's daily commute will be decidedly less demanding of their car than would a full track session, so swapping out the drums isn't really necessary, as they do a more than sufficient job of stopping the car. I'm not trying to say that someone shouldn't swap their brakes, just that it makes more sense not to if all you do is drive to and from work and up the occasional back road.

[ls six]

Actually, the brake bias is the hydraulic pressure split front to rear. Watch/read the following.

Like I said there is more than the hydraulic split to the equation. Thats why rear brake components are typicaly smaller then the front.

Like the Protege rear pads VS the GE chassis rear pads. The rears for the proto are about 1/4" taller and increase the swept area of the rear brakes.

Under the same conditions with the same pedal pressure more braking force is being developed over all. Since all that extra force is being developed by the rear brakes the (effective) bias is altered.