Forced induction kits for 2G Proteges

[pigeon]

you guys have to remember what the powerband on the 1.5L turbo vs the 1.8L n/a is going to be...

the 1.5L is going to bog down low, 1 because it does anyways, 2 because its going to be trying to spool a turbo... so when you mash it at 1500 rpm, you still have to wait for the boost to build, and you still have to wait for the 1.5L's natural powerband... which gives a whopping 92 peak flywheel hp mid-high range

if they are going to build a turbo kit that will give you 180 whp, thats giving your an additional 100 hp
thats gotta be a really complete system with some sort of fuel management device, fuel pump, injectors, pressure regulator, intercooler, piping, manifold, BOV, as well as a turbo, that will have some reasonable boost levels...
thats over 100 hp per litre

this isnt going to be a cheap modification
because you're going to have to drop the tranny to change the clutch anyways

and all you 1.5L's with the F25-MR tranny's, which is all of you
you're all going to break them

trust me, i kno all about the F25-MR tranny's ****tyness since the dealership rebuilt it once, and now it needs to be done again

i race the car, but never abuse it

ask bruce, he's physically lifted up the 1.5 and the 1.8
there isnt that much of a weight variation

and to get 100 additional hp
this isnt going to be a 6 psi turbo
you're going to need more boost
more boost equal's bigger turbo
bigger turbo equal's more lag
more lag equals more time to build up

and you all only have a 6500 rpm redline

not to mention Z5 motors have higher compression than BPs

im sorry guys, it just doesent sound like the 1.5 people are being quite realistic

i mean, patrick has the F25MR tranny, i THINK
and he has somewhere around 200 whp on his gtx motor

and ask him about how much work and effort he's put into it

and we dont even know longevity wise how well his transmission is going to do

[asylum24]

seriously why did you have to go and ruin it for me lol... but thanks for the info man

[bruce95fmla]

If you KNOW this belongs in another forum (forced induction) WHY DID you post it here .......???????????????????
God THAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF.
I don't know why people do that ... post in the right section .. it's a turbo question .. post it there ..
I mean damn is it that hard.
post moved !!!!

[zshakespeare]

so basically what your saying is I'm going to probably shell out once again what I paid for my car to make it go decently fast (200+ hp) assuming I can even find parts out here. well that just frosts my cornflakes. and here I had my hopes all up.

[OCD-SPEED]

trust me, i kno all about the F25-MR tranny's ****tyness since the dealership rebuilt it once, and now it needs to be done again

i race the car, but never abuse it

ask bruce, he's physically lifted up the 1.5 and the 1.8
there isnt that much of a weight variation

I agree that to turbo a 1.5L is pretty stupid, but a few things im not so agreeable on. You think the f25-mr tranny is so ****ty? Try to stock automatic. the f25 is like a damn supra tranny compared to that thing. But anyhow, so long as you dont slam gears, downshift with out double clutching, and rev to 6 and drop the clutch you should be fine. BTW the G-series is the same damn thing with diffrent gear ratios... to my knowledge slightly diffrent gear ratios dont make that much of a strength diffrence. G-series have been known to run around 300hp.....I dont think the f series is as weak as you say. Also i dont know what the hell the engine weight has to do with anything but I too have lifted up a 1.5L and 1.8L and ill be damned if there isnt quite a big diffrence. I can easily move a 1.5L by hand and to move my 1.8L i have to get my friend to help and we still have alittle trouble.

[zshakespeare]

Really what my question now is: if there is going to be a turbo kit for both engines, is it worth it to swap to the 1.8? If I'm gonna have to rip my tranny out anyway I figure I might as well put the engine in too, assuming I can get a good deal. The tranny will be alot harder to find than the engine if the 95 model is the only one I can use.

[pigeon]

yes, i do think the f25mr tranny is ****ty, and comparing it to an automatic is totally irrelevant

and i do drive my car properly, and it still broke
i have gone drag racing, and autocrossing, but never once shifted without pressing the clutch, and never did any clutch dumps

the first time my diff gave out

mazda rebuilt it

now i have gear whine in 2nd, it pop's out of fifth on the highway, and it crunches in reverse
if thats not garbage, i dont know what is

i also know someone with a 1.5L 5 speed who had their transmission rebuilt after 100 000 km's also

when stress is put on these tranny's, from my experience.. they dont last long

and yes, you obviously have not done any reading on this board, or you would know that the G transmissions are tougher so im not going to even argue with you about that

i mentioned engine weight because the guy from essential speed said that the weight difference is a factor in the speed difference..
and i said, it wont make a major difference

but i havent picked up both so i guess i cant comment on weight

[OCD-SPEED]

Enlighten me and tell me why the G-Tranny is stronger. Other than somebody said so.

[bruce95fmla]

ok, I wasn't going to post my real fealings on this topic in this section.... It's bad enough mr.whoever posted the crap in the wrong section and then threw it in my face how he put it in the wrong section ..... It's the principle..

but anyway ..

here is what I say.
The difference between the 1.5 and the 1.8 is frigin night and day .. I am really serious. essential speed , I respect them for makind parts and all, but they have not drivin a 1.5L protege for 4plus years and absolutly know its weakeness and its strengths. The 1.5 is weak at high rpms and ok at lower rpm's. The 1.8 although it may be a little heavier, maybe like 10 or 15 lbs... still has 30 more hp over the 1.5 and that makes a difference. While driving my car, I can feal the difference in power from 25k rpm on up to 7k rpm.. It's crazy to me ..
Ok as for the turbo,, I say it's a good idea. I spoke to chris and it seems like the turbo that they may use would be similar to the accent that they boosted with a teo4, if I am not mistaken. If it can make the 1.5 produce like 40 more hp,, it would be duly needed .. but ... but
remeber this
40 brings the power to 130 , how much does the 1.8 have 122....
see my point... although you will have more tourque which should work in your favor.. A boosted 1.8 will run you all day long.
I don't know realistic you guys are thinking, because if you have looked the kit for the accent is like 4grand canadian.. good part is it comes with everything.

As for the tranny, I have not had any problems with mine, aside from I would need the turbo to really reak havic in 5th gear. That extra boost would be ,,,, ohh god. Anyway, if you are on a budget, and you need to get the car up and running quikly you could use the F tranny. It's no big deal. You just have to know that over a certain amount of power , say 200 or below or above, you will and should upgrade to the G tranny. This is due to it's ability to hold more power physically than the F.

If you can do a tranny swap, you can do a motor swap..
ok my fingers are hurting ... later ..

[pigeon]

here is someone with a broken F tranny, just like myself...

http://www.wihandyman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3133

Here we have a gentleman (Pseudo Reality X) doing a GTX swap, and we have The MAN advising him on which tranny to use.

" 11-13-2003, 02:00 AM #28
TheMAN
Protege Anarchist


Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Donating member:
Posts: 352 ok dude... let me know when you're back in dallas... I have to see to it myself that you get this **** to work... my heart is beating with excitement right now :D

we have to meet up so that I can give you pointers on what you need to do to get this done

OH and about the tranny... MAKE SURE YOU GET A 95 ES TRANNY... you DON'T want the 96-98 ones... they WILL blow up with that engine installed... ONLY the 95 one will work right... the 95 is a G tranny, the 96 and 98 are F trannies.... if you have to use a 1st gen tranny, you have to figure out a way to swap in the electric speedo sensor"


And then here we have YOU agreeing with him

"
11-13-2003, 09:31 AM #30
OCD-SPEED
Registered User


Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NC
Donating member:
Posts: 135 Ahhh, TheMan... Its nice to read something intelligent every once in awhile....No, seriously. Keep talking sense into the masses, i gave up long ago.
__________________
~Release of the OCD-SPEED Project Protege In Spring 2004~ "


from what i kno, The Man - Edwin knows what he's talking about...
i take majority of what he says as the truth

[OCD-SPEED]

Lol you should work for the press. But i said other than just saying someone said so.

[pigeon]

alright man, believe what you want

i am not a mazda enginner, nor have i ever dissassembled a transmission

i dont quite understand why you're agreeing with edwin then, but not me

unless you're jus kissing his ass, which there is a good possibility

[bruce95fmla]

You can basically use either one. If you have the time to physically search for a 95 tranny. Then go ahead. If you find one , your good.
When I did my swap, I honestly didn't have the time to search for the tranny. I had to get the car up and running before the end of the summer. I will however swap a 1g G tranny (with 5th gear mod) into my 2nd gen after the turbo install and when I am ready for my ACT clutch or my stock clutch blows up .. whichever happens first.

I can't tell you why the G is better. I don't know why, and that's a straight answer. But I can't say my F is weak because God knows it's seen it's burn outs and it's 6500 rpm and now 7000 rpm shifts ...

oh well . you guys will figure something out.
I am also working on a how to for the wire harness. I just have to really sit and remeber everything that I did, when I was hardwireing the harness. I was jumping between two books and 3 harnesses .. soo.... u know .. memory lag lol ...

--------------------------
Overall I say if you guys have the money to spend on a turbo for you 1.8 then go for it. I mean horsepower is hp .. You get it any way that you can. Just don't melt your motor while doing it.

[bruce95fmla]

Really what my question now is: if there is going to be a turbo kit for both engines, is it worth it to swap to the 1.8? If I'm gonna have to rip my tranny out anyway I figure I might as well put the engine in too, assuming I can get a good deal. The tranny will be alot harder to find than the engine if the 95 model is the only one I can use.

your right!
The tranny is a lot harder to find than the engine. The BP you can pretty much find with ease.
The hardest part about the swap is the wire harness. That's it.
Everything else is basically a stock bolt in. Nothing crazy, nothing out the ordinary.

You basically just have to dedicate time and be persistent. You also can't give up.
But if you want to keep things simple. You can strap on a turbo and boost the 1.5. You may be able to even use 1.6 pistons also. But the block would have to be sent to a machine shop to be milled so the pistons can fit...
That's if there is even enough space. I would have to pull a z5 head just to even wonder.

I had a guy in Canada that was a mazda tech. I used to get a log of useful info from him and we were discussing the potential of the 1.5. I lost contact with him after he had a newborn, sooooo... u know how that is.

Bruce

[Markley02]

Turbo on ebay

I have nothing to do with this auction. I just saw it, and I thought I would let you guys know. He says it will fit a 1.8 protege. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2455580005