FSP 1st Gen Protege Project

[crazycanadian]

Most definatly pictures... I am really curious about this set up.. I end up running 3/4 to a full tank to make sure I don't get fuel starve... I would be really nice to run less...

Any video's from your runs at the alanta event?

[XelderX]

I'll get some pictures of the fuel pump setup once I finish getting it the way I want. I'll need to drain the tank before I get any decent pictures and we are waiting until we actually run the fuel down enough to fuel starve before we do that. We are at just under 1/2 a tank now.

I'll try and get links to the Atlanta videos. My co-driver has them right now.

[crazycanadian]

I am looking at doing some things for tires next year and I was curious why you never chose to run 13's? or 14's? on your car?? I was thinking about trying to step down to smaller DX front brakes so that I could hopefully fit 13's on my car, but I am not sure since I'd still like to use my car for lapping days as well...

[XelderX]

I am looking at doing some things for tires next year and I was curious why you never chose to run 13's? or 14's? on your car?? I was thinking about trying to step down to smaller DX front brakes so that I could hopefully fit 13's on my car, but I am not sure since I'd still like to use my car for lapping days as well...

There are several reasons on my tire choice. I went with the 15" setup mostly for the gearing. With the 275/35-15 on the front we hit the rev limiter in second gear around 63-64 MPH. On 99.99% of autocross courses that is right at the top speed for a car like mine. Putting on a smaller diameter tire could require extra gear changes and from data aquisition we have seen that every gear change costs about 1/10 of a second. Another issue is available tire width vs weight of the car. With the 275/35-15 we are already having a hard time keeping the tires from overheating on hot days. Jinx Jordan has gone back and forth between a 275/15 and 255-13 on his Civic. He believes the 13" tire is quicker initially on the Civic, but they overheat too quickly making them slower after only a few runs.

There is also an issue with 13 rims fitting on the rear of the Protege with the LX disc brake spindles. There is a little nub that sticks out of the spindle and for a 13" rim to clear it you would have to offset the rim too far away from the spindle to tuck it inside the fender. I like the disc brakes too much to sacrifice them for smaller wheels.

[XelderX]

Pictures from yesterday with the new spoiler.





The spoiler definitely makes a difference. For the first time in the history of this car we actually had to start spraying water on the rear tires to keep them cool. I forgot to fill the air tank up so we ran out before we got the rear airpressures up high enough to counteract the spoiler. This caused a slight push and made the front tires heat up even faster than normal. I'm going to put some stiffer springs on the car for the next event and see what happens.

Video from my co-driver...he actually beat me this time. He apparently got more sleep than me the night before and got in a really good run on good tires. By the time I got the course right we were already loosing control of the tire temps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFpWCnfdu2g

[crazycanadian]

There are several reasons on my tire choice. I went with the 15" setup mostly for the gearing. With the 275/35-15 on the front we hit the rev limiter in second gear around 63-64 MPH. On 99.99% of autocross courses that is right at the top speed for a car like mine. Putting on a smaller diameter tire could require extra gear changes and from data aquisition we have seen that every gear change costs about 1/10 of a second. Another issue is available tire width vs weight of the car. With the 275/35-15 we are already having a hard time keeping the tires from overheating on hot days. Jinx Jordan has gone back and forth between a 275/15 and 255-13 on his Civic. He believes the 13" tire is quicker initially on the Civic, but they overheat too quickly making them slower after only a few runs.

There is also an issue with 13 rims fitting on the rear of the Protege with the LX disc brake spindles. There is a little nub that sticks out of the spindle and for a 13" rim to clear it you would have to offset the rim too far away from the spindle to tuck it inside the fender. I like the disc brakes too much to sacrifice them for smaller wheels.

Humm.. That gives me a bit to think about... Any kind of higher speed course I find I have to shift... My KLDE runs out of breath around 6000 - 6200rpm...I am also running the mx3 1.8L transmission with a 4.33 find drive... What do you think you would run for tire size? Keeping in mind a pretty limited budget.. I'll be stuck in the same situation as you are with the rear brakes... I though I could get 13's to clear the rear and just my front was going to be a problem.. but I guess not..


The wing looks good... Glad to hear it show promise of working like you want it to...

[XelderX]

Humm.. That gives me a bit to think about... Any kind of higher speed course I find I have to shift... My KLDE runs out of breath around 6000 - 6200rpm...I am also running the mx3 1.8L transmission with a 4.33 find drive... What do you think you would run for tire size? Keeping in mind a pretty limited budget.. I'll be stuck in the same situation as you are with the rear brakes... I though I could get 13's to clear the rear and just my front was going to be a problem.. but I guess not..


The wing looks good... Glad to hear it show promise of working like you want it to...

What tire size are you running now? With a 4.33 final drive I would want to run at least a 23" diameter tire depending on what your usual courses provide. If you are already making regular shifts to third than I definitely wouldn't run anything smaller than you are now. With a KL adding a little more weight to the front there just isn't a 13" or 14" tire that can handle that. It may be different up north, but down here where it's not uncommon to be racing with air temps above 90 degrees, anything less than a 275 width tire gets cooked. Even the much lighter weight Civics are watering down 275 Hoosiers to keep them cool enough.

[concealer404]

^From what i'm finding, the KL is actually lighter. In my car, accounting for loss of PS, A/C, going to aftermarket headers, etc etc etc, i'm ballparking almost 100lbs lost off the nose.

But yes... 15s for sure!

[ot81to]

Been running many events lately? Anything new on the car?

[XelderX]

Been running many events lately? Anything new on the car?

Only one event, but I have another local race this Sunday. We haven't done much with the car in the last few weeks other than cut the rear spoiler down about 30% and play around with a front splitter. I'm not sure we have the splitter design done properly so we may have more to gain there, but it is starting to get to the point where we need to stop changing things and make sure the car is ready for Nationals.

[ot81to]

Cool pics! Was the rear spoiler creating too much downforce? Any spring rate changes planned?

[Mazda_Powered]

looks awesome! How does it feel with the front aero modification?

[XelderX]

Cool pics! Was the rear spoiler creating too much downforce? Any spring rate changes planned?

Yea. In the higher speed elements the car was pushing. We increased the rear spring rate to 500lbs (was 450). I'm hoping the smaller rear spoiler we will be running in the next two events will make the car a lot better at higher speeds. We may end up going back to 450lb rear springs depending on what we see.

looks awesome! How does it feel with the front aero modification?

We've only had the front splitter on for one event and we didn't get much useable data out of it. The rear tires had a lot of rubber pick-up on them for the first few runs so the car was very loose. After that wore off the car got pushy again because of the spoiler. The effect of the splitter is very minimal at autoX speeds so it is very tough to feel a noticeable difference yet. Once we stop changing things on the rear of the car we might get enough consistency out of it to notice a difference in the front.

[ot81to]

I see that you and your co-driver finally got registered. Me too. Check out HS. Maybe there should be a class called "vintage HS," as I have the oldest car in the class. New Hoosiers are on the way. I'll be sure to stop by your car to check it out and say hello. See you in Lincoln!

[XelderX]

Awesome man. We'll be in Lincoln all week. Hopefully, FSP won't have to work for HS or vice versa so I can hang out in grid and watch.