TURBO, the magazine

[neuspeedescort]

They write for the masses and the masses want it easy.

america the land of the lazy!


NEUMAN

[Tazman2]

america the land of the lazy!


NEUMAN

[91ProtegeLX]

Lex summed it up.....

Also, one other point to bring up....how is that civic a better platform? Look at both of the engines a BP vs lets say the SI "performance" motor d16z6 (in the VERY common EG civics) The Z6 was in no way designed to be a real performance engine. The BP on the other hand...why yes it was. Read the history of the BP.

So with that being said, how is the civic a better platform to start with. The very HEART of the car must be transplanted or incredibly built up to be any type of a threat. Ive seen a few z6s make shy of 300whp with a turbo kit, but with a built up bottom end and that was about as far as it would go without other extensive modifications. I personally know of more than 5 400hp BP motors on stock internals. Now how is that civic a better platform?

[Tazman2]

I personally know of more than 5 400hp BP motors on stock internals. Now how is that civic a better platform?

Because ricers/sell outs/people who say they are different but end up being the same (civic owners) know best?! DUH!

[neuspeedescort]

yep a few 400hp+ bp's out there. im starting to think that guy just saw escort and thought 1.9L sohc. then the civic would be better. but you think if someone went to the extent of dissing a car in a world wide mag they would do some research first. the most i have seen out of a d-series civic is just shy of 300hp. granted its a 1.6 where we are a 1.8 but that doesnt make a 100hp+ difference.

so to start at an even level.

91 egt with a stock 1.8L = 127hp/115trq
93 civic coupe with a swapped in ls 1.8L = 130hp/?trq


NEUMAN

[91ProtegeLX]

But still...that right there goes to show.....you have to swap the engine/tranny/axles/ecu and so forth to get the same performance from the honda that the EGT has out of the box....

And regardless of if it is a 1.6l compared to a 1.8l, the d16z6 still put out almost 125hp stock....

Thats like saying, since a Mini Cooper has a 1.3l engine (or whatever), it has to be compared to a 1.3l rx7.......

See my point? Honda owners always use that argument in their favor as well.

Maybe we should just start with an Integra LS and the EGT.....

[neuspeedescort]

Maybe we should just start with an Integra LS and the EGT.....

sounds good to me. they weigh about the same. i know it took my buddies 4dr a 50 shot of nos, heavy pnp head, cai, dc header, and cam gears to get his car to run a 15.3. that was the same day i ran my 15.5 in my egt. granted a 15.5 is not common for a stockish egt but a 16 flat -16.3 is just like his integra would run if it was untouched. an ls coupe with intake header and exhaust will net you a high 15. an egt can do the same.

NEUMAN

[Tazman2]

im starting to think that guy just saw escort and thought 1.9L sohc.

Well the "GT" makes it officially a WHOLE different beast all together. For example. According to my town my car is worth $550 for tax purposes because it says "Escort" via the VIN, etc.... But yeah i think they are just honduh fan boys anyways clearly so you can't really win.

[Shaun32390]

It might be wise to point out that most of the editors and staff at the major magazines are completely jaded. Let's not forget that these people get to see and drive 500-1000whp cars regularly. I think that this is where the sentiment comes from.

From that standpoint, I can see how it could be hard to fathom certain lesser tuned marques reaching that level of power and/or performance. They don't necessarily have an accurate representation of what the average joe tuner has to contend with and I can see how it is easy for them to cast off any unpopular car.

Another point that might be critical to mention here is that regardless of which car he dissed in particular, the idea is not so specific. You can bet he/they were using the Escort as an example in speaking of a much broader scope of cars.

That being said, it in no way excuses the mentality they published with a statement of the sort. The notion that any car is not worth tuning is absurd and insulting to the average person who will never get a chance to own or even ride in a car with much more than 250hp. My definition of tuning a car is modifying or maintaining a car in such a way as to improve it. Period. Regardless of which area is addressed. It should have nothing to do with a cetain type of car being better than an other but only to find improvement.

I'm not saying comparing cars is bad. In fact competition is one of the best ways to breed improvement. People really need to realize that every car will require different levels of money, work, and time to get to a given level of performance. If your idea of making your car better is to save money so you can walk into a shop and buy a catalog full of parts to make your car faster/nicer/better than someone else's then fine. But it's no one's business to then go arround telling others about their misfortunes with their typical minimalist consumer's attitude and discouraging people from doing what they want to to their cars. I've never heard of anyone "building" a competitive racing machine with only off the shelf options. The fact that anyone thinks this is realistic shows everyone just how much they really know about tuning a car for competiton. If you define how good your car is by how well it holds up to other cars, then you will never be happy with what you have. It's like someone mentioned, It's a ****ing hobby so treat it like one and do it for yourself and for the fun/satisfaction of making something better.

That's all I have to say. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

[atomicEGT]

My friend has a sr20 in his 2000 nx, thats ana amzing little car....

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

the nx2000 is a pile of **** with a weakass motor

[92dx]

I had a b13 se-r, automatic............not tight.

[atomicEGT]

at least you wouldn't have to deal with 5th gear pop-out with an autotragic...

[neuspeedescort]

Well the "GT" makes it officially a WHOLE different beast all together. For example. According to my town my car is worth $550 for tax purposes because it says "Escort" via the VIN, etc.... But yeah i think they are just honduh fan boys anyways clearly so you can't really win.

gen1 egt's are the 1.9L HO motors. only 110hp and lower torque. rev limit of 6200. not a performance car by motor means but a nice a race car due to suspenion. i owned a gen1egt for some time and it was a nice car to drive.

NEUMAN

[92dx]

at least you wouldn't have to deal with 5th gear pop-out with an autotragic...

And tragic it was...
I had to drive 3 miles thru back roads in reverse to get home when the the tranny ****ted out. 25 in reverse is cool..

[SgtRauksauff]

It all comes down to marketing to stupid hippie treehuggers. The same people (not to start another flame war) who eat up the marketing of Apple computer. LOL!

honda out-marketed mazda with the cheap economy car. While honda was making the accord and civic, mazda was engineering technology to get them kicked out of F1 racing with their rotary engines. Accord, Civic, Prelude. 626(turbo), miata, rx7... mazda was marketing affordable performance in the USA before honda was, but honda got the cars out to the masses of commuters.

Ford was doing the same thing as chevy and dodge, namely staying behind the times and trying to market what they wanted to sell, rather than what the people wanted to buy.

Then come 10-15 years later, what do you have? Those commuters now have kids, who are starting to drive. Companies know that younger kids really want to do the hot rod thing. So, they make parts to market to what most people have. Since most people have hondas, because of their parents buying them for commuter cars way back in the day, they now have a larger aftermarket.

Honda has some very well engineered technology. while most companies were going with variable air intake stuff, they stepped up with Vtec, actual variable camshaft grind. The rotary engine did so good, that the motorsports world told mazda to get the hell out, because they hated getting their ass handed to them. The motorsport world is where TONS of the visibility for auto companies' technology comes through, and the followers will eat it up and buy the stuff because it makes them think they're cool because they can get the same parts as a racecar. Quick easy bolt-ons, somebody else did all the work, you don't have to think about stuff, it's just better than it was before.

There are TONS of things available to do to the BG chassis car, whether escort, protege, 323, or whatever. It might not be as common from all the vendors, but the things that are out there are top-notch quality for the most part.

These cars set up just for show? hell, with no alignment for 3 years, on street tires, with a bone stock GTX, an '04 EVO8 with mods (and better tires) could BARELY keep up with me around the Autobahn Country Club south track. The only car that passed me all day was a Z06 with a supercharger.

Hell, even with the bone-stock 88hp 1.9L SOHC engine, I was able to pass a 911, a couple spec miatas, some 280Zs, a Cobra R, and a couple camaros at Blackhawk Farms 2-mile road course. My mods? ZX2 struts and springs. The only cars that passed me that day were a WS6 and a Z06.

These cars have great suspension geometry, and the parts are there. They might not be there at autozone for you to buy on a whim, but hey. Tell that to all the hippie tree huggers who bought hondas back in the 80s, and to the whiny-ass bitches who couldn't compete with a rotary, and to the the ****tard Big Three who care less about performance than image, because image is what sells.....

--sarge