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    Mazda Specifies a Synthetic Oil for the 1st Time

    Yesterday, I was at my Mazda dealer buying wiper blades for my wife's 3. Just behind the parts counter were 3-boxes of engine oil branded for Mazda. One box was labeled SAE 5W-20, a second SAE 5W-30, and the third was labeled Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20. The boxes were a bit too far from me to read any other data printed on them. I was surprised on two counts: Mazda never specified a 0W-20 oil for any vehicle that I knew of nor did they ever recommend a synthetic oil.

    Now according to the FSM specification, the 3 requires 5W-20 and the Mazdaspeed3 uses 5W-30, both non-synthetic (or at least synthetic not recommended or mentioned). So where does the synthetic 0W-20 fit in?

    After returning home I went online to a couple of Mazda3 forums where I discovered that for the 2011 MY, Mazda specifies synthetic 0W-20 for the 3 in place of the previously recommended non-synthetic 5W-20. No definitive reason was given but there was speculation on the part of some forum members that the switch resulted in a cleaner engine emission-wise. As the 2010 and 2011 engines are identical, it was believed that the synthetic 0W-20 oil could also be used in the 2010 engine, and some forum members with the earlier model claimed that their dealers said that this was permissable. Since the 2010 MY 3 specifies 5W-20, it was also pointed out however that even if the engines are the same, using an oil other than the OEM mandated product could result in warranty problems in case of engine damage.

    Keep in mind that the 2010-2011 Mazda3s are 2nd Gen 3s with the BL chassis code and the foregoing remarks do not apply to the 2004-2009 1st Gen 3s with the BK chassis code, all of which are specified to use 5W-20 oil.

    Extended viscosity range mineral oils tend to be somewhat unstable and Mazda may have decided that extending the viscosity range downward from 5 to 0 may have required a switch to a synthetic type to ensure longevity along with all its other superior attributes compared with mineral oils. For more information, go to:


    I don't know if Mazda plans any changes in oil specs for the Mazdaspeed3 nor do I know if the 6 will also be using synthetic. This remains to be discovered.

    I don't know who manufactures the Mazda branded oil but one forum member I came across claims that the Canadian Mazda synthetic oil is made by Petro-Canada although I can't confirm that on my own. However, Petro-Canada does manufacture a 0W-20 synthetic oil and provides the following information on their TechData website:
    "Supreme Synthetic Motor Oils start with 100% synthetic PURITY VHVI base oils derived from the patented HT purity process which produces 99.9% pure base oils."
    http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/re...22&language=en

    VHVI (very high viscosity index oil) is produced from crude oil through the hydrocracking process and therefore constitutes an API hydrocracked Group III oil rather than one derived from Group IV (PAO) or Group V (Polyol ester) base stocks. Props to Petro-Canada for being up front about the constituents of their oils (although in a somewhat indirect way; one still has to know, or look up, the meaning of VHVI), a rarity in today's world. Assuming this is the oil sold by Mazda, which I'm sure is a very fine lubricant, nevertheless those wanting a Group IV or Group V based product should look elsewhere.

    FWIW, There is a Petro-Oil America based in IL but I don't know its connection with the Canadian company. Regardless, whomever makes American Mazda synthetic oil it will almost certainly be a hydrocracked Group III product due to cost considerations alone.

    More research is needed to take hold of this slippery subject.

    Happy Motoring!
    Last edited by goldstar; 01-31-2011, 09:18 AM.
    02 DX Millenium Red - The Penultimate Driving Machine
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    Modified OEM Air Intake; Racing Beat Exhaust System; Techna-Fit SS Clutch Line
    Denso SKJ16CR-L11 Extended Tip Spark Plugs; Magnecor Wires
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    #2
    The speed3 is very hard on its oil. Further, direct injection means that oil deposits in the intake tract and on the back of valves will be much more pronounced with a poor quality oil. I have been running Pennzoil Platinum synthetic 5W30 from its second oil change.

    Comment


      #3
      Good idea, and yes, any turbo car should certainly use a high quality synthetic oil. It will be interesting to see if Mazda eventually will make a synthetic determination for the Speed3.

      Happy Motoring!
      02 DX Millenium Red - The Penultimate Driving Machine
      MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit; Cusco Front Lower Arm Tie Bar
      MSP Springs, Struts, Stabilizer Bars, Trailing Links, #3 Engine Mount
      Kartboy Stabilizer Bar Bushings; Nyloil Shifter Bushings; Red Line MT-90 Gear Oil
      MP3 Shifter, Knob and Aluminum Pedal Set
      Suvlights HD Wiring Harness; Osram Night Breaker H4 Bulbs; Exide Edge AGM Battery
      Summer: 5Zigen FN01R-C 16 x 7" Wheels; Yoko S.drive 205/45-16s
      Winter: Enkei OR52 16 x 7" Wheels; Falken Ziex ZE-912 205/45-16s
      Modified OEM Air Intake; Racing Beat Exhaust System; Techna-Fit SS Clutch Line
      Denso SKJ16CR-L11 Extended Tip Spark Plugs; Magnecor Wires
      Power Slot Front Brake Rotors; Techna-Fit SS Brake Lines; Hawk HPS Pads
      Red Line Synthetic Engine Oil; C/S Aluminum Oil Cap
      Cyberdyne Digital Gauges: Tach; Ambient Air Temp; Voltmeter

      Comment


        #4
        I agree with the decreasing emissions idea on the new oil weight specification. Also, it would seem that they're trying to eke out as many miles per gallon as possible, and a thinner oil would definitely help in that regard. Though the difference may, and most likely would be, negligible, with the ludicrous new CAFE regulations looming, every little bit helps. Also, with engine tolerances getting ever tighter (for the aforementioned reasons, mainly), a thinner oil is likely to provide greater protection as it can reach the parts that need lubrication easier than a thicker oil would be able to. The reason synthetic is specified seems to be simply that conventional 0W-20 does not exist. I have never come across it, and I am not aware of any company that makes it. I may be wrong on this front, and if anyone knows of a conventional 0W-20 please let me know, but as near as I can tell it's not out there.

        Another reason I have theorised has to do with the lingering Ford influence. Land Rover recently specified 5W-20 synthetic for all of its engines, which is a first. Jaguar, I'm sure, is running the same, as both LR and Jag use the same (V8) engines. It seems that Ford was switching to lower viscosity oils at the time the new V8s were in development, and only after they were completed were the companies sold. It's possible that Ford was working with Mazda on revisions to the MZR (that is what the 3 uses, right?) while Mazda was still under FoMoCo control, and after they were completed the partnership was dissolved, or the developments were far enough along it made no sense to change things again. Again, just a theory.
        1995 626: daily beater, mostly stock. Future NASA racer?

        Next up: Speed6 or RX-8

        Comment


          #5
          Thank you for your informative comments regarding the trend to lighter viscosity oils.

          Yes, a 0W-20 mineral oil would be extremely problematic due to the wide viscosity range it would have to encompass lacking the high viscosity index, and greater thermal and oxidative stability (among other characteristics), common to synthetic oils. It is these characteristics that make possible the extremely wide viscosity ranges achievable (0W-20, 0W-30, and 0W-40) in modern synthetic oils, well-beyond the capabilities of conventional oils.

          The 3 uses the MZR.

          Happy Motoring!
          02 DX Millenium Red - The Penultimate Driving Machine
          MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit; Cusco Front Lower Arm Tie Bar
          MSP Springs, Struts, Stabilizer Bars, Trailing Links, #3 Engine Mount
          Kartboy Stabilizer Bar Bushings; Nyloil Shifter Bushings; Red Line MT-90 Gear Oil
          MP3 Shifter, Knob and Aluminum Pedal Set
          Suvlights HD Wiring Harness; Osram Night Breaker H4 Bulbs; Exide Edge AGM Battery
          Summer: 5Zigen FN01R-C 16 x 7" Wheels; Yoko S.drive 205/45-16s
          Winter: Enkei OR52 16 x 7" Wheels; Falken Ziex ZE-912 205/45-16s
          Modified OEM Air Intake; Racing Beat Exhaust System; Techna-Fit SS Clutch Line
          Denso SKJ16CR-L11 Extended Tip Spark Plugs; Magnecor Wires
          Power Slot Front Brake Rotors; Techna-Fit SS Brake Lines; Hawk HPS Pads
          Red Line Synthetic Engine Oil; C/S Aluminum Oil Cap
          Cyberdyne Digital Gauges: Tach; Ambient Air Temp; Voltmeter

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Lex View Post
            The speed3 is very hard on its oil. Further, direct injection means that oil deposits in the intake tract and on the back of valves will be much more pronounced with a poor quality oil. I have been running Pennzoil Platinum synthetic 5W30 from its second oil change.

            I have a friend that is a tech for a BMW dealership, and all the direct injection BMW's have this same problem, regardless of oil type. The solution to the problem is an aftermarket oil catch can to keep the stuff out of the intake.
            92 Mazda MX3 GS> For sale, $1750 OBO
            94 Escort wagon--BP swap coming, VF10 Turbo, COP, EVO ECU, 03 ZX2 front end conversion
            "Hold yourself accountable before you are held accountable"
            EV14 330cc@3Bar injector kits available.
            EV14 GT500 injector kits available for the BP. 610cc@3Bar.
            EV14 925cc@3Bar injector kits available
            BP Forged H beam rods available now
            KL Forged H beam rods available now
            K8/KF Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
            FS Forged H beam rods
            awaiting test fit
            F2 Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
            FE3 Forged H beam rods coming soon
            Mitsubishi 3.8 MIVEC rods coming soon
            Aluminum CAS/Distributor caps
            BP oil jet eliminators
            EV14 fuel rail spacers
            More stuff coming soon.......

            Comment


              #7
              actually right now at mazda the mazda 2 is specified to use the 0w20 motor oil. its kind of funny because the 2 is suppose to be the most affordable vehicle in the current mazda line up and it uses the most expensive motor oil. we have had a couple of people complain about the expense of the oil change saying they bought the vehicle to save money and the oil change prices are not helping. i believe the 11 3 is designated to use this oil as well. the speed 3 and cx-7 still use the 5w 30. at the moment they believe that the 5w 30 will protect the turbo models better than the other available motor oil. we shall see what happens in the near future but that is how it sits at the moment
              91 protege gt. dropzone mx3 springs, mx3 crossmember, ractive front and rear strut braces, rear lower mx3 brace, 4 wheel disc brakes, corksport ss brake and clutch lines,kvr front pads, ractive cai,ram air hood scoop, modified front bumper, shaved ant and rear trunk lock, fubu ant, short shifter, corksport bronzeoil shifter bushings,92 glass sunroof and tail lights, mx3 center console, autometer gauges (volt and oil pressure) cluster needles painted to match, sound system, 17 inch eagle alloy 193 with 205 40 17 rubber. klze is ALIVE BABY!! . http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2394656http://www.toprotege.com/forums/show...hlight=project[url]

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by 1Mazda323Fan View Post
                I agree with the decreasing emissions idea on the new oil weight specification. Also, it would seem that they're trying to eke out as many miles per gallon as possible, and a thinner oil would definitely help in that regard. Though the difference may, and most likely would be, negligible, with the ludicrous new CAFE regulations looming, every little bit helps. Also, with engine tolerances getting ever tighter (for the aforementioned reasons, mainly), a thinner oil is likely to provide greater protection as it can reach the parts that need lubrication easier than a thicker oil would be able to. The reason synthetic is specified seems to be simply that conventional 0W-20 does not exist. I have never come across it, and I am not aware of any company that makes it. I may be wrong on this front, and if anyone knows of a conventional 0W-20 please let me know, but as near as I can tell it's not out there.

                Another reason I have theorised has to do with the lingering Ford influence. Land Rover recently specified 5W-20 synthetic for all of its engines, which is a first. Jaguar, I'm sure, is running the same, as both LR and Jag use the same (V8) engines. It seems that Ford was switching to lower viscosity oils at the time the new V8s were in development, and only after they were completed were the companies sold. It's possible that Ford was working with Mazda on revisions to the MZR (that is what the 3 uses, right?) while Mazda was still under FoMoCo control, and after they were completed the partnership was dissolved, or the developments were far enough along it made no sense to change things again. Again, just a theory.
                you are right about the 0w 20 only being available in the synthetic. if they had a conventional oil in that grade they would be using it
                91 protege gt. dropzone mx3 springs, mx3 crossmember, ractive front and rear strut braces, rear lower mx3 brace, 4 wheel disc brakes, corksport ss brake and clutch lines,kvr front pads, ractive cai,ram air hood scoop, modified front bumper, shaved ant and rear trunk lock, fubu ant, short shifter, corksport bronzeoil shifter bushings,92 glass sunroof and tail lights, mx3 center console, autometer gauges (volt and oil pressure) cluster needles painted to match, sound system, 17 inch eagle alloy 193 with 205 40 17 rubber. klze is ALIVE BABY!! . http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2394656http://www.toprotege.com/forums/show...hlight=project[url]

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Lex View Post
                  The speed3 is very hard on its oil. Further, direct injection means that oil deposits in the intake tract and on the back of valves will be much more pronounced with a poor quality oil. I have been running Pennzoil Platinum synthetic 5W30 from its second oil change.
                  Originally posted by 300zxrb26dett View Post
                  I have a friend that is a tech for a BMW dealership, and all the direct injection BMW's have this same problem, regardless of oil type. The solution to the problem is an aftermarket oil catch can to keep the stuff out of the intake.
                  I was curious as to why this occurs so I did a little research. The deposits on the back of the intake valves are due to the result of backflow during the valve overlap period when the engine is operating at part throttle. In port injected engines, the fuel nozzle is placed such that the fuel spray reaches the back of the intake valves where the detergents added to gasoline help to remove the combustion products deposited there. Obviously, no such cleaning action can take place in DISI engines.
                  Reference:
                  Automotive Engineering Fundamentals by Richard Stone and Jeffrey K. Ball; Chapter 3: Spark Ignition Engines; Section 3.4.1, Port Injection Combustion Systems; Section 3.4.2, Direct Ignition Spark Ignition (DISI) Combustion Systems; pages 113-120.

                  Happy Motoring!
                  02 DX Millenium Red - The Penultimate Driving Machine
                  MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit; Cusco Front Lower Arm Tie Bar
                  MSP Springs, Struts, Stabilizer Bars, Trailing Links, #3 Engine Mount
                  Kartboy Stabilizer Bar Bushings; Nyloil Shifter Bushings; Red Line MT-90 Gear Oil
                  MP3 Shifter, Knob and Aluminum Pedal Set
                  Suvlights HD Wiring Harness; Osram Night Breaker H4 Bulbs; Exide Edge AGM Battery
                  Summer: 5Zigen FN01R-C 16 x 7" Wheels; Yoko S.drive 205/45-16s
                  Winter: Enkei OR52 16 x 7" Wheels; Falken Ziex ZE-912 205/45-16s
                  Modified OEM Air Intake; Racing Beat Exhaust System; Techna-Fit SS Clutch Line
                  Denso SKJ16CR-L11 Extended Tip Spark Plugs; Magnecor Wires
                  Power Slot Front Brake Rotors; Techna-Fit SS Brake Lines; Hawk HPS Pads
                  Red Line Synthetic Engine Oil; C/S Aluminum Oil Cap
                  Cyberdyne Digital Gauges: Tach; Ambient Air Temp; Voltmeter

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by goldstar View Post
                    The deposits on the back of the intake valves are due to the result of backflow during the valve overlap period when the engine is operating at part throttle. In port injected engines, the fuel nozzle is placed such that the fuel spray reaches the back of the intake valves where the detergents added to gasoline help to remove the combustion products deposited there. Obviously, no such cleaning action can take place in DISI engines.
                    Happy Motoring!
                    I'm kind of curious myself as to why this occurs in direct injection engines. I haven't done any searching myself yet, nor have I looked at your references, but it seems to me that given the higher combustion ratios DI engines run, and the higher temps modern engines of all types are using these days, that deposits would have less of a chance to form on the intake valves. Paired with a good quality gasoline, I'd figure there wouldn't be much to turn into gunk on the back of the valve. Obviously, some digging is required on my end. Goldstar, if you have any other sources to reference, I'd like to see them. Not trying to discount what you've already posted by any means, but merely for my own research purposes, so I can be better informed on the issue.
                    1995 626: daily beater, mostly stock. Future NASA racer?

                    Next up: Speed6 or RX-8

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by 1Mazda323Fan View Post
                      I'm kind of curious myself as to why this occurs in direct injection engines. I haven't done any searching myself yet, nor have I looked at your references, but it seems to me that given the higher combustion ratios DI engines run, and the higher temps modern engines of all types are using these days, that deposits would have less of a chance to form on the intake valves. Paired with a good quality gasoline, I'd figure there wouldn't be much to turn into gunk on the back of the valve. Obviously, some digging is required on my end. Goldstar, if you have any other sources to reference, I'd like to see them. Not trying to discount what you've already posted by any means, but merely for my own research purposes, so I can be better informed on the issue.
                      In port injected engines, the fuel nozzle is placed such that the fuel spray reaches the back of the intake valves where the detergents added to gasoline help to remove the combustion products deposited there. Obviously, no such cleaning action can take place in DISI engines.
                      92 Mazda MX3 GS> For sale, $1750 OBO
                      94 Escort wagon--BP swap coming, VF10 Turbo, COP, EVO ECU, 03 ZX2 front end conversion
                      "Hold yourself accountable before you are held accountable"
                      EV14 330cc@3Bar injector kits available.
                      EV14 GT500 injector kits available for the BP. 610cc@3Bar.
                      EV14 925cc@3Bar injector kits available
                      BP Forged H beam rods available now
                      KL Forged H beam rods available now
                      K8/KF Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
                      FS Forged H beam rods
                      awaiting test fit
                      F2 Forged H beam rods awaiting test fit
                      FE3 Forged H beam rods coming soon
                      Mitsubishi 3.8 MIVEC rods coming soon
                      Aluminum CAS/Distributor caps
                      BP oil jet eliminators
                      EV14 fuel rail spacers
                      More stuff coming soon.......

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Many hybrids use this grade, so maybe they have something up their sleeves?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by 1Mazda323Fan View Post
                          Goldstar, if you have any other sources to reference, I'd like to see them. Not trying to discount what you've already posted by any means, but merely for my own research purposes, so I can be better informed on the issue.
                          Glad to oblige.
                          The best single-source reference that I know of concerning DISI intake valve deposits is in an SAE paper titled "Reducing Deposits in a DISI Engine" (SAE paper number 2002-01-2660). I usually don't cite SAE papers as references because they cost money to purchase or download. SAE members get discounts but most of us don't belong to the organization. As it happens I was able to read this paper on the job a few days ago since we maintain a fairly good library of SAE papers. Here is the Abstract describing the paper as published by the SAE:
                          "Direct injection spark ignition (DISI) engine technology offers tremendous potential advantages in fuel savings and is likely to command a progressively increasing share of the European passenger vehicle market in the future. A concern is its propensity to form deposits on the inlet valve. In extreme cases, these deposits can lead to poor driveability and deteriorating emission performance. This inlet valve deposit buildup is a well known phenomenon in DISI engines since even additised fuel cannot wash over the back of intake valves to keep them clean."

                          If you're interested in purchase or download (US $22 for either), go to:
                          Direct injection spark ignition (DISI) engine technology offers tremendous potential advantages in fuel savings and is likely to command a progressively increasing share of the European passenger vehicle market in the future. A concern is its propensity to form deposits on the inlet valve. In extrem


                          I don't know of many websites I could recommend (although I'm sure many good ones exist, I simply haven't had time to research that end), but for a start you could look at:


                          Hope this helps.

                          Happy Motoring!
                          02 DX Millenium Red - The Penultimate Driving Machine
                          MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit; Cusco Front Lower Arm Tie Bar
                          MSP Springs, Struts, Stabilizer Bars, Trailing Links, #3 Engine Mount
                          Kartboy Stabilizer Bar Bushings; Nyloil Shifter Bushings; Red Line MT-90 Gear Oil
                          MP3 Shifter, Knob and Aluminum Pedal Set
                          Suvlights HD Wiring Harness; Osram Night Breaker H4 Bulbs; Exide Edge AGM Battery
                          Summer: 5Zigen FN01R-C 16 x 7" Wheels; Yoko S.drive 205/45-16s
                          Winter: Enkei OR52 16 x 7" Wheels; Falken Ziex ZE-912 205/45-16s
                          Modified OEM Air Intake; Racing Beat Exhaust System; Techna-Fit SS Clutch Line
                          Denso SKJ16CR-L11 Extended Tip Spark Plugs; Magnecor Wires
                          Power Slot Front Brake Rotors; Techna-Fit SS Brake Lines; Hawk HPS Pads
                          Red Line Synthetic Engine Oil; C/S Aluminum Oil Cap
                          Cyberdyne Digital Gauges: Tach; Ambient Air Temp; Voltmeter

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thanks, goldstar. The BITOG link was definitely a good starting place. In reading through the thread, I found a link to another one that may be of interest to you and others: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...1574495&page=1 . Seems that this is a rather serious problem in DI engines, and it appears that no OEM is scrambling over themselves to find a solution. Either that, or they're all keeping quiet about the problem and equally quietly introducing fixes to avoid lawsuits, given the litigious times we live in. I'll definitely be looking more into this issue, and I should be purchasing the SAE paper you linked soon as well. If I come across anything else of note I'll be sure to keep the group informed. Thanks for bringing this to my attention; it may have a rather dramatic impact on my next car purchase.
                            1995 626: daily beater, mostly stock. Future NASA racer?

                            Next up: Speed6 or RX-8

                            Comment

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