Buttonwillow Raceway Oct 18/19 2003

[charles]

No, I didn't know the guy, he was just running in a race that day. I don't really know what happened, but that is a decreasing radius turn and can be kinda tricky. I think there was a wall out there. He died due to neck injury, something like sudden deceleration can do that I think ... fortunately unconciousness comes very quickly like that

[Davard]

Originally posted by kcbhiw
Doh! That's a shame! What'd he hit? Or did his tires dig in causing him to flip? Did you know they guy?

This is the turn. He went off the outside and hit a retaining wall at about 45mph. The wall is there to protect the kart track.
The AS cars are probably entering the turn at about 100-110mph, and it's a 40-50mph turn that goes off camber and then drops off to the left. I imagine the Protege was probably entering close to 80mph. That's the one turn on the track (and only going that way) that really scares me, although I've only run it as an autocross in that direction (and we slow it down quite a bit on the entry speed).

The likely cause of death was a basal-skull fracture, the same thing that killed Dale Earnhardt (among many others) and the reason for the HANS device (and similar things). Oh, the driver wasn't wearing one. Just a 5-point harness and the car had a cage.

[THEGOLDPRO]

thats a shame, on a lighter note it looks like an awesome track, i really want to get my car on a track, but there are none in maine.

[charles]

David, you nailed it... you must be reading the mailing lists or something... As for the Protege entering at 80mph, did you mean me? I think I went down to second before I did that turn... I enter it very slowly and early apex (it's a hard turn!), but I like to gas it out of there, although I think I'm not getting that much traction right there.

[kcbhiw]

The likely cause of death was a basal-skull fracture, the same thing that killed Dale Earnhardt (among many others) and the reason for the HANS device (and similar things). Oh, the driver wasn't wearing one. Just a 5-point harness and the car had a cage.

I was kind of thinking that. You should look into a HANS device. A simple peice of equipment that will, for the most part, prevent this sort of injury. Unfortunately, it's too late for this unlucky fellow.

[charles]

Originally posted by kcbhiw
I was kind of thinking that. You should look into a HANS device. A simple peice of equipment that will, for the most part, prevent this sort of injury. Unfortunately, it's too late for this unlucky fellow.

Right, but you have to remember he was using a 5-point harness with a cage. A regular 3-point probably won't keep you still while your head moves like a 5-point harness will.

[Davard]

Originally posted by charles
David, you nailed it... you must be reading the mailing lists or something... As for the Protege entering at 80mph, did you mean me? I think I went down to second before I did that turn... I enter it very slowly and early apex (it's a hard turn!), but I like to gas it out of there, although I think I'm not getting that much traction right there.

I should have said approaching that turn. You lose most of the speed prior to the crest of the hill, but at the end of the straight, you should be moving pretty well. Going the other way, I hit about 70-75mph on the straight (into 3rd about halfway down), but the entry on to the straight should be faster going anti-clockwise, since the left is taken at 45 or so, vs 30-35 and then uphill for the other direction.

They've added extra pavement on the outside of the turn since the last time I was there, but I'm not sure what the point was, since you shouldn't be out there anyway...and if you are, you're pretty well f-ed.

[charles]

Originally posted by Davard
I should have said approaching that turn. You lose most of the speed prior to the crest of the hill, but at the end of the straight, you should be moving pretty well. Going the other way, I hit about 70-75mph on the straight (into 3rd about halfway down), but the entry on to the straight should be faster going anti-clockwise, since the left is taken at 45 or so, vs 30-35 and then uphill for the other direction.

They've added extra pavement on the outside of the turn since the last time I was there, but I'm not sure what the point was, since you shouldn't be out there anyway...and if you are, you're pretty well f-ed.

There was some kind of connecting road or extra long turn that was coned off, which is what the extra pavement seemed to be for. I don't remember exactly what it was.

Yes, if you get the right line you can start gassing on the exit of the hills and get some good speed on that straight.

Speaking of which, I want to go back and work on the turn that exits into the front straight, and the Temecula turn, and....*sigh*

[kcbhiw]

Originally posted by charles
Right, but you have to remember he was using a 5-point harness with a cage. A regular 3-point probably won't keep you still while your head moves like a 5-point harness will.

Eh? What's a three point have to do with it? A HANS device is a sort of neck brace. It has nothing to do with the harness.

[Davard]

Originally posted by kcbhiw
Eh? What's a three point have to do with it? A HANS device is a sort of neck brace. It has nothing to do with the harness.

The HANS device, specifically, won't work without a 4-point harness. It goes under the upper harness straps and basically provides the same protection as do the harness straps (that is, it keeps your head from moving forward when you suddenly stop, the same way the harness does).

With a 3-point belt, the shoulder belt crosses the chest, and wouldn't hold the HANS in place, thereby rendering it useless.

Also, you don't generally hear about basal-skull fracture being a problem in ordinary auto crashes (with 3-point belts) because the upper body is not held as rigidly in place as it is with 3" wide 4-point belts, and therefore the head doesn't suffer the same rapid decelleration separate to the body as would happen with a 4-point. Additionally, without a cage, the car generally deforms much more on impact, which reduces forces on the occupant (right up to the point where things start entering the cabin....like the doors, the engine, the front and/or rear bumper, etc.).

Similar head restraint devices work the same way.

I still don't understand why WRC doesn't use stuff like that. But then again, very few of the drivers and navigators wear full-face helmets, which are another requirement for using HANS or similar devices. And they generally don't run into wall straight on. :D

[kcbhiw]

Originally posted by Davard
The HANS device, specifically, won't work without a 4-point harness. It goes under the upper harness straps and basically provides the same protection as do the harness straps (that is, it keeps your head from moving forward when you suddenly stop, the same way the harness does).

With a 3-point belt, the shoulder belt crosses the chest, and wouldn't hold the HANS in place, thereby rendering it useless.

Also, you don't generally hear about basal-skull fracture being a problem in ordinary auto crashes (with 3-point belts) because the upper body is not held as rigidly in place as it is with 3" wide 4-point belts, and therefore the head doesn't suffer the same rapid decelleration separate to the body as would happen with a 4-point. Additionally, without a cage, the car generally deforms much more on impact, which reduces forces on the occupant (right up to the point where things start entering the cabin....like the doors, the engine, the front and/or rear bumper, etc.).

Similar head restraint devices work the same way.

I still don't understand why WRC doesn't use stuff like that. But then again, very few of the drivers and navigators wear full-face helmets, which are another requirement for using HANS or similar devices. And they generally don't run into wall straight on. :D

Ahh, cool. Thanks for the clarification.

[charles]

You might be thinking of some of the neck collars you can get, maybe like, $40, and are designed to prevent whiplash injuries. Not necessarily a bad investment.

[kcbhiw]

Originally posted by charles
You might be thinking of some of the neck collars you can get, maybe like, $40, and are designed to prevent whiplash injuries. Not necessarily a bad investment.

Naa, I was thinking of the HANS, but never really paid attention to how it was arranged with the harnesses. I had a different idea as to how it 'functioned'.