Z5+B6+turbo

[beetle_orange]

it is very interesting. i know there is no such thing as a straight swap but if this was a simple removal of the z5 top end and dropping in the B6-ZE top end, install B6 Intake and exhaust manifold, use Z5 distributor, use Z5 ecu, and all wiring plugs in. Then this is indeed a very good alternative than going BP. it'll be a lot easier to turbo too since there are more aftermarket parts for the B6-ZE.

does anybody have a B6 and Z5 to compare wirings and plugs?

[Shaun32390]

OK, if the bore is different and we swap the whole B6-ZE, we could still use as many of our Z5 sensors and accessories as possible.
But would the Z5 ECU run the 1.6L properly without an S-AFC or E-Manage? Maybe raise fuel pressure and/or bigger injectors?

And if we use the B6-ZE ECU, will it plug into the Z5 harness (interior and engine)?
IF it comes down to changing the engine and all the wiring, then f^(k it; The BP is still a better choice!

IF this is just a simple head/manifold swap with some sensors changed to fit the Z5 harness, then it's a great option. That 1.4mm lip will get plugged up with carbon in no time!

[beetle_orange]

i guess the only person that can help us answer all of these lingering question is TwinCam16. hope he could give us a more detail description of what he used and what he did not. another thing i wanted to know was whether his protege/familia had the Z5 as its original engine.

[Project Protoge]

Well I checked the sensors and it does look like the z5 throttle body has to be swapped as well as the coolant sensor. It is possible still that the coolant sensor harness may fit but they had different part #s. The b6-ze uses the same flywheel and clutch kit but has a different front right engine mount. The main thing in this swap that I would worry about is are their any differences in crankshaft gear diameter and teeth?

[Gro Harlem]

the way I see it, worrying about using a Z5 block & b6 head is a waste of time.

what we should figure out is if the 94-95 MX-3 b6 dohc has the same SENSORS (or at least see if they are swappable) as the Z5.

If they use the same pinouts on teh ECU and similar plugs, u could literally swap a B6 striaght into a 2nd gen which would be a semi-gain in power (105hp / 100 torque). + its a better motor anyways.

ONLY the 94-95 MX-3 B6-DE had a MAF and a internal ignition coil like the Z5. The 91-94 Capri & the B6T 323's all had external coils w/VAF's and a less-efficient intake manifold design.

[Gro Harlem]

BTW; if anyone can get me some decent diagrams of a Z5 ecu pinout I could compare them with my paper MX-3 FSM to see if the pinouts are indeed the same. + if u have the OEM fsm, there are lil pictures of how every engine harness plug looks that would be helpful in comparing the stuff.

[Gro Harlem]

who gives a **** though, the B5 and B6 blocks are physically the same size... swapping a B6-ZE into a BHALP is 100% bolt in... you reuse ALL the mounts, clutch, flywheel, and tranny.... you don't even have to swap the flywheel if you use the B6-ZE from the MX-3, because all of the 1.6 models uses the F25M-R!

what about the ecu plugs?!?!??! I figured it is a direct bolt-in but the ecu plugs are the next-in-line headache to deal with



**** seriously..if it is a pretty easy swap, I'll shove one in my car THIS WEEK. I have a line on a mx3 engine for 150...one happened to be already removed from a mx3 at the JY and I checked under the oil cap & it looked clean. Car only had 98k miles on it too.

[Intruder]

I got a hold of jgs tools and they are willing to make turbo manifolds for us. If we got more than 10 ordered they would be $175 plus shipping.

For the B6 head?

[Project Protoge]

The turbo manifolds are for the z5 head. The wiring is different on the z5 and b6ze. Their are way to many differences to change our wiring to work with it. If you do the full swap you will have to swap sensors, wiring harness, and computer. This basically defeats the purpose because if anyone was to go through all this for the 1.6 and not the 1.8 they would have to be crazy. The advantage is to do as groharlem was trying to do and find out what sensors we can swap from our cars onto the b6ze and that will tell us weather or not we can use the head with our sensors and not have to swap computers or do wiring. If you change the engine your stock computer is not calibrated for the larger displacement and the swap would not run properly. If you change the head the displacement changes very little if any so the stock computer could still run it and you have a higher performance valvetrain that is upgradable. I don't blame anyone for wanting the stronger bottom end but if get greedy and try to have it all you are wasting your time even doing the 1.6 swap and should be looking to do a bp swap.

[THEGOLDPRO]

any dyno numbers on this???? and what psi are you running?

[Project Protoge]

One simple reason. CC's. If I was going to spend a small fortune and a **** load of time on doing a full swap I would want to get the largest engine possible because if you turbo'd each engine with 10psi the bp would put out at least 30+ more hp. why go through the same amount of work as the guy with the bp and be slower. If their is a shortage of bp's how come I can find them at just about any jdm engine dealer out their. Their in a **** load of cars. If your not patient enough to find one then you will just be slower I guess and spend the same amount of time and money as the guy with the faster car.

[beetle_orange]

correct me if i am wrong but i think what theMan meant was that its harder to find a BP for a 2nd gen and not the BP in general. everybody knows there's an abundance of BP out there, heck they came out in literally every Mazda but in a 2nd gen? i dont think you will find aplently. finding a BP for your swap is just half the problem, then you gotta deal with wire harness, ECU, etc etc.

BUT, if you want a reliable daily driver without the dreaded "wild RPM fluctuations" of the Z5 yet have access to aftermarket equipment then the B6 is really a very good choice.

[Intruder]

Cheaper? Not necessarily. If you go to a J/Y and pull the motor yourself they don't care what it is. Price is the same on both.

I wouldn't bother swapping a whole B6. If the head works on the Z5 bottom end without any modification, then that's good.

beetle, the car is getting older to the point where it's not considered "late model" anymore and it has started showing up in the "u-pull-it" and "pick-n-pull" type of junkyards. 2nd gens are starting to show up at my local yard.

[beetle_orange]

true the car is getting older but you are in california and i am in illinois. i think there is a big difference there. i know i have been advocating the B6 but in all honesty if i find an ES at my local yard and i am able to get the needed parts for the swap there's not a doubt in my mind that i would go BP as well.

so if you see another 95/96 ES you know where to get in touch with me.

[Intruder]

What do you mean with the IL/CA comment? There are way more BP's in the eastern states!

Yeah, I will let you know for shizzle.