owned a MSP

[pigeon]

to be honest guys, how much does this argument have to get played out...

like, before it was protege vs corvette... but the whole import vs domestic thing is extremely played out

there is no REPLACEMENT for displacement, but sometimes displacement is NOT the most ideal way

in a car that needs 200 hp, but also a 50/50 weight distribution, a v8 wouldnt work well there

but power wise, there is NO replacement for displacement.... FI does not replace it
FI compliments displacement, you could take a 8.0L V8 and boost it and no 4 banger could compete

so ya, when power is the only criteria, there is no replacement for displacement... and you cant even argue otherwise

when power is NOT the only criteria, then you could argue it

and when it comes to import vs domestic, its ALL taste and personal preference

some people like coming out of parkinglot sideways torque
other people like 9000 rpm redlines

some people like angry bumble bee exhausts, some people like growling shaking the ground exhausts....

some people like quick handling nimble 2200 pound cars, other people like 8 second quarter mile times...

you cannot argue personal preference, its subjective.

[redcivic]

I would argue the income thing. I just think imports have the reliability and style reputation which is why more young buyers are attracted to them. I had a 93' Z28 that while fast was a complete POS reliability wise. I had it a year and I replaced 3 or 4 injectors, the t-y-tops leaked, the A/C went out, and the brake master cylinder failed. All of which was fixed under warranty but it was still a PIA. My coupe on the other hand (which I bought in 93' to replace my Z28. Yes I have had it all these years) had 197,000 hard miles on the ODO before I swapped engines to a DOHC GSR engine. My civic just now having 252,000 on the odo has had to have new front suspension, new brakes all the way around, and all this is after a decade of drag racing and autocrossing. You would be hard pressed to find and LT-1 with almost 200k on the odd without having had some significant work done to it. Bottom line is that domestics are getting better in terms of both style and reliability but they are still not there. I recently test drove a Saturn ION and I have to admit that it was close interms of driveability to my cousins EVO. Now I know a lot of car freaks might disagree but I realize a lot has to do with personal preference. Some people just can't resist the sound of a big block ( I have many friends in this category). But some people (like me) can't resist the feeling of whoopin' some gearhead in a Cobra that talks **** when you roll up to the burnout box next to him. Now, I realize the potential of a Cobra, but it's still a great feeling because a lot of ignorant people just go out and buy a fast car and think they are god. It's like when I line up to a C5 thinking it's gonna be a good run and the guy runs a 13.5 or some ****. Most supercar owners can't drive for ****. They just like going to the track to show their ass. But that applies to imports as well. My Cousin's EVO has not touched a 13 with him behind the wheel but he thought he would buy an EVO and whoop ass.

[BMW ///MPOWER]

well then you suck..... it only takes about a couple trys to find out howto get a good launch from a car, the rest of the way down the track is just driving straight and shifting.

[jurgs01]

Getting a perfect launch is tough. You should apply just enough throttle and ride the clutch through 1rst so your tires are to the limit of slipping, but don't. This can make a difference of up to 0.3 to 0.5 seconds on your 1/4 mile time.

To all of you arguing about not building up the Protege engine half of the fun is doing the modifications. I will probably top off about 350 WHP when I am done with my car, but I am limited in the 1/4 mile by FWD. I really don't care, because it was fun to do and it will be fun to race when I get it done.

[jnorion]

Any estimate as to where you're at now? I keep seeing you around town but have never actually had a chance to look closely. I saw you last week sometime practicing launches near my house.

[jurgs01]

where do you live? Between troy HWY and the HWY to Lewiston?

[jnorion]

Yeah... out on Palouse River Drive, right next to the new apartments

[jurgs01]

I am running about 14 sec flat at stock boost right now. I am waiting to do the complete forged rebuild this summer before I put a GT28rs turbo on (what turbo lag? dual ball-bearing kills that!) and get the AEM engine management tune it to a conservative 15-18 psi, then put a 50 shot on and tune it some more. My motor rebuild will be pretty in-depth, and how extensive a build will depend on if I get the partial sponsorship from Mental Addiction Motorsports.

BTW, for all of you N/a protege guys out there. There is a really nice and competitively priced complete turbo system upgrade available from MAM for the 3rd gen proteges. It is everything you need. A guy named Beau works there and they are very much into making parts for the protege community.

[jurgs01]

Yeah... out on Palouse River Drive, right next to the new apartments

I have the stock exhaust on and some black steelies with studs for the winter, but if you want to do a little run if you're still here when the snow clears I will take you.

Did you get an older protege now?

[jurgs01]

finally, someone thats doing it right, and going all the way with it, not someone that just slaps on a turbo or gets a gtx motor and calls it done... a true enthusiast!

There is a few guys going all out. Mine is unfortunately held back because of funds and priorities. Check this out:

http://flatblack.somethingsomething.org/p5/porting/index.html

or this one:

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83298&page=1&pp=15

Here is one more:

http://www.sa-motorsports.com/diyport.shtm

Good info so people can see what goes into building a motor yourself to save some $$. I will be the first to admit that I'm not a mechanic (I'm an electrician), but I'm pretty practical and this stuff is fun for me to learn to do myself. I can't wait till the Protege is all torn apart in my garage this summer.

[McCorkle]

finally, someone thats doing it right, and going all the way with it, not someone that just slaps on a turbo or gets a gtx motor and calls it done... a true enthusiast!

Oh didn't I mention that I will be forgin my internals in the future and going with a standalone fuel management. It doesn't mean **** until you get it done. Anybody can say they will do it but I will believe it when I see it.