Jeffs MSP GTR Build

[vtec-this]

well I still havent seen anyone state that 300 flywheel maxes the 550s at 45psi, but still I gotta imagine its pretty close to becoming unreliable.

I can understand that someone else made more whp on smaller injectors but Im thinking that doesnt really mean running past 80% DC on 20 year old injectors on pump gas is a good idea.

ya with a fpr I know I could jack the pressure a bit more and not worry, but since I already have a MS for the same money I could probably just buy bigger injectors.

from my last dyno I made ~9.6whp per psi,.. assuming that a bp motor with a turbokit thats running no boost puts down ~100whp and then adding 17x9.6 im thinking i am AROUND 263whp or approx. 300 flywheel..I guess it would be higher on dynojet numbers which makes me even more cautious. Like Johns FS ad stated, good for up to 320HP...but is that measured on a dynojet or a mustang dyno?

I think Im just going to run at 17 and if it makes less than 300 flywheel Ill up the boost a until I get to 300.

Who knows maybe ill get greedy and try for more. My opinion on this changes every ten minutes. What a hair pulling exercise. I guess we will just have to see what happens on the dyno.

for all I know 17psi could make some unimpressive number, then ill be cranking that EBC knob like crazy lol

Turn it up. This is still the fitting mule motor isn't it? The one you were really only using to mock up the swap? Lol.

ya pretty much. this mule has been good to me, I thought it would last weeks and its been years of fun lol the real motivation not to break it is that my other car is now a purple chevrolet van. not really something you wana be seen driving.

i guess rather than asking whether I should/shouldnt up the boost I should just say wish me luck. whatever happens, happens. the gameplan is just going to be to play it by ear and hopefully i dont get carried away and have to call a tow truck home.

[vtec-this]

It will also be interesting to see the difference in spool with the car on the dyno vs the spool with the car on a flat road

This pull is in 4th gear from ~3000 to ~7300 RPM with the gain on the EBC set to 15, boost set to 17.2.

I have also added some more timing since my last dyno.

[vtec-this]

went back to the dyno today...

BOOM






























JK



Well once again I had nothing but problems.

The bad news:

1. Filled up with 94 octane. Set boost to 19psi (I had bigger balls then usual today) got the car up on the dyno. 4th gear pull. As soon as i passed ~5200rpm it felt like we hit a brick wall. .but then we look and the engine IS idling fine.. I look back at my laptop and its completely frozen? WTF I hard boot my laptop and the windows profile is corrupted (great).

I logged in with another profile and review the MS log. AFRs are PERFECT IAT is great everything is MINT and then suddenly, the MS reset in the middle of a high boost run..

I instruct the operator to do the pull again and keep his foot in it even if it does that again. brrrrrrrrrrrBAMbrrrrrrrrpt once again MS resets at 5200rpm@19psi but is able to get through the hiccup and keep going til redline WTF again this happened.hmm

We look at the data on the dyno machine and the engine almost made 300 FLYWHEEL ON MUSTANG NUMBERS, OVER 300!!!! on Dynojet Numbers!

The graph looks so retarded with the damn MS resetting in the middle of the run that the operator says he wont even print it out as it could not be smoothed out properly. They are pretty professional compared to a butcher like me.

So, I removed laptop as it was just freezing every time the MS reset, hooked up my bluetooth connector, started data logging on the cell phone. this time 17psi. exact same thing happens, a couple hundred or so rpm sooner than last time.

At this point I had been there almost an hour trying to figure this stuff out. The operator was obviously getting annoyed as I was wasting his time and they had better things to do as this was supposed to be a simple on/off dyno run. All this dyno time and i still did not have a complete pull.

Then of course, even with my new second fan running full the car overheats and does a minor puke on the dyno. at least it wasnt big this time (maybe my stock auto pro5 radiator just wont cut it for back to back dyno pulls for an hour or so. dont wana over heat there again so i am also going to look into moving my downpipe a bit farther away from coolant inlet as well as this might be contributing to my issues)


Then I just said ***k it I want at least some charted numbers out of this thing today as the dyno is not exactly cheap whether you get your print out or not so we set boost back down to around 15 and we did a pull which gave me the 235whp chart (mustang dyno numbers) you see here. I happy with the numbers, but the motor sounded sweeter than ever. Not a bad sound to hear after listening to it fall on its face during the 19psi runs lol

So...

The good news:

1. The new KL clutch held up great!
2. We EVENTUALLY recorded a 235whp run using mustang dyno numbers (thats ~270 flywheel! ) at 15psi. The Operator mentioned this way closer to 285 flywheel on dynojet numbers at 15psi.
3. The engine certainly CAN make 300 flywheel, however I needed 19psi to do it, which worries me a bit as my math tells me I should be there at 17psi.

The strange thing is on the street it doesnt reset. Operator mentioned that since i go through 3rd/4th much quicker on the street the problem probably just never surfaced, essentially from what we learned the ecu cannot handle high load/boost for long durations of time without resetting.

i am thinking this is due to me being a hack with the wiring. however i have not made any recent changes so it must be something that has been otherwise unnoticed on the street, even at 17+psi.

Anyways, Im leaving for vacation soon. Im happy I got to hit the dyno before leaving but look forward to playing more with my MS. Really wanna get back on the rollers and do a 19psi pull again once i sort out this electrical BS. The setup certainly proved to me today that it is able deliver 300hp, just needs a little more massaging to get everything right under high boost on the dyno.


peak printable numbers: 235whp / 206 wtrq using mustang numbers. Thats ~270HP at the Flywheel. Not bad for a 1991 Ford Escort GT motor

AND let it be known, that for a short period of time in the existance of this earth, 300 horsepower came out of a STOCK MSP axleback exhaust / racing beat muffler...lol

[concealer404]

Looking pretty good.

What kind of dyno was this?

[concealer404]

As for your question about the 550s... how much whp you can get out of them will depend on the tune, rest of your fuel setup, what dyno you're on, etc etc etc...

I made 245whp/238wtq on FM's dyno to the wheels on my Miata at 13-14psi, using 100% fuel system save for a set of RC 550s. Lots of headroom to go.


On the other end of the spectrum, i suspect that my MX6 was making ~350whp before it blew through the clutch. On 440cc injectors. Running rich.

[vtec-this]

Looking pretty good.

What kind of dyno was this?

Mustang Dyno 1750SE (Single Eddy Current), with load control

[concealer404]

Cool! I'd call those pretty healthy numbers, then.

[bomdoutscort]

Please stop choking that turbo and put a 3inch turbo back exhaust on there. The turbo is way too big for the stock axle back.

[vtec-this]

right now I think theres alot better ways to get another 5-10HP, like tuning or adding my new intake manifold to the mix. The NVH from changing out the stock axleback/muffler for me just isnt worth it for me DDing the car over 100km daily, and by the time exhaust gases pass through the 3" downpipe/midpipe I think they have cooled enough that it is not that much of a bottleneck.

and when you think about it, an axleback exhaust installed would cost me more than my big turbo did, so wheres the $/HP logic in that purchase lol

If i ever stop DDing the car Ill just run a 3" straight pipe out the back and forget the muffler altogether, but still I wouldnt expect much HP from it, just alot more noise.

I just hit 300 flywheel, so how bad could it be holding me back. im thinking 5-10hp at most. maybe this is why it took 19psi and not 17 to hit 300 flywheel, but still the noise/BS from a loud muffler isnt worth it for me as I DD the car through a major city every day and right now I fly under the radar with stock muffler.

[concealer404]

I think you'd be surprised at the power you'd pick up. Likely to be more than 5-10hp.

That said, i understand the reasoning.

[bomdoutscort]

The question is, how much did that big turbo cost you? Also there is no shame in making your own exhaust. I'm just saying not telling you to. I think you may be right about how much you will gain at that hp that your at but 300 at the flywheel means your probably throwing hp out the door. Oh and ace made like 230whp with a 3 inch on a vj20. So it might be something to look into.

[vtec-this]

ya if i ever make it into a "race car" or take it off the road it will be on my list of things to do. Right now at 19 when I am not on the dyno that motor pulls without issue and to tell you the truth I dont think Im going to go much more than 19 with the setup until its off the road. 2600 pound car with 19psi of boost is enough for me right now Just going to fix this issue with the wiring, go back to the dyno and then enjoy it for a bit until I get bored again.

[vtec-this]

well some good/bad luck

On Friday me and a buddy had the time of our life with the car.

Tuned my fuel table up to 21psi and made several improvements to the tune. Everything was going great. Hours of fun.

Then Saturday while loafing on the 401 in 5th on the way to wasaga I looked down and saw 220 coolant temp.

Decided I should get in far right lane and get off at Mavis and just coast to a gas station as the offramp was about 1km away.

In the 40 seconds it took me to do this coolant went from 220 to off the charts.

Turned off the motor and coasted the whole offramp and down Mavis to a Esso.

Picked up a bottle of water at the station and started filling her up. Steam was shooting from the back left of
the block as fast as I was pouring water in.

Got her towed on a flatbed and eventually ended up at a friends house (lukas) to see what happened.

Figured the head gasket had blown. The motor started and ran but was on 3 cylinders.

Lucky for me Lukas happened to have a 1990 BP from a Protege GT with far less milage sitting there just waiting for a home.

It took about 4.5 hours to pull the whole drivetrain out stopping every hour for a smoke/drink.

As we were pulling the motor out we discovered that the head gasket DID NOT blow.

There was no coolant in the oil and vice versa.

What had happened was a freeze plug located in the cylinder head behind the Cam Cover backing plate had come loose

and was now sitting in the space between the cover and the block.

I think the freeze plug was leaking whenever there was high pressure in the system and eventually worked its way loose
enough to pop out during regular driving.

Long story short pulling the motor was a piece of cake and in the grand scheme of things I have nothing to be upset about.

This motor gave me 3 years of fun and was a blast right up until the end.

She died at 35X,000KMs and 22 years of age. Best motor I ever had. Best money spent in my life. Unbeatable fun/dollar ratio.

Now I am just going to finish swapping everything over to the 1990 protege gt bp and pick up where I left off.

The incident was just a small hurdle. Lucky for me it does not get any quicker/easier to swap drivetrains
than with my setup.

It is a piece of cake and ended up being a fun afternoon.

Now I am just going to spend some time later this week and clean/paint the new bp and then slap her in. Should be fun.

[bomdoutscort]

Nice, great story. I love how less complicated the bp setup is than the FS, also the abuse that it can take over the FS.

[FE3-323]

that explains the pictures of the engine being pulled ........... glad you got it sorted with a quickness