Piercemotorsports to prepare Ferrari 430 Challenge Car for 24 hours of Daytona

[Lex]

Looks like sharp work and I love the suspension setup on that Ferrari.

[SgtRauksauff]

Personally, I was just joking with Jim. If you've ever seen his cage work up close, it's a nice as any tig welded cage...

I figured as much, but it prompted my brain a bit: I've always wondered; technically, is tig actually "better" than mig? If yes, then what makes it so? (I've not used a tig, or really had any "official" welding training other than reading and experience.) To me, Tig seems just like brazing with a torch, only using an electric arc instead of oxygen and acetylene for the heat, and a different rod alloy, since the arc is hotter than the gas. You can maybe get into tighter spots than with a wire-feed unit, but as far as weld strength goes, is there any real difference?

Sorry to go slightly off-topic. I might actually have to turn on the TV and watch the race this car is in, just to see it go!


--sarge

[Mazda_Powered]

Air jacks! That's nuts! I'd hate to see the price tag on them haha.

Keep up the great work!!!

[JPmotorsports]

I figured as much, but it prompted my brain a bit: I've always wondered; technically, is tig actually "better" than mig? If yes, then what makes it so? (I've not used a tig, or really had any "official" welding training other than reading and experience.) To me, Tig seems just like brazing with a torch, only using an electric arc instead of oxygen and acetylene for the heat, and a different rod alloy, since the arc is hotter than the gas. You can maybe get into tighter spots than with a wire-feed unit, but as far as weld strength goes, is there any real difference?

Sorry to go slightly off-topic. I might actually have to turn on the TV and watch the race this car is in, just to see it go!

You know we mig just about everything except for aluminum and we'll tig sheetmetal to thicker material. With the tig torch/pedal you have infinite control of the heat all the time---so if your welding an .065 gusset to a .120 tube, you can get it perfect where as with the mig you set the heat and go (you can change the distance of the gun tip to vary penetration to a degree with the mig...). Your notch's (should be perfect regardless) have to be perfect with the tig---the mig allows small gaps---and a nice "V" is actually perfect for the mig.

It's much easier to mig in a car and optimum on the bench where with tig it's optimum on the bench and tough inside the car...The width of a tig weld is around an 1/8th" vs. the mig which is generally twice as wide so when you fuse the metal together with the tig, it had better be right or she'll crack. The mig doesn't require as much diligence...

Back in the late 80's early 90's the offroad trophy trucks we're all single pass tig welds and they were cracking every race...The snobbery wouldn't allow a mig welded (at least frowned on it) $250,000 truck, but the ones that showed up didn't have the same kind of issues...The multiple pass tig welded trucks didn't have issues. Neither is better all though the tig is more versatile---the mig is much easier/quicker. I believe on a tube chassis you can save nearly 15lbs tigging vs. mig welding because you use less filler and rely on fusing metal together...my two cents...(the tig welding gods just rolled their eyes)


--sarge

[jrally]

Personally, I would feel safer in a well done mig'd cage, then a tig'd cage. The amount of extra material does add more strength. (at least in my mind) You can actually weld materials together without filler rod with a tig torch, in the right instances. I haven't done much tig welding beyond the intake manifold for my last rally car, so I can't speak too much about it beyond my own experiences. It was pretty cool/funny when it made the phones ring in my friends office, where I welded up the manifold. There is a LOT of energy coming off a tig set-up.

-Jon R.

[SgtRauksauff]

that made sense, thanks! My mig is actually "infintely" variable for heat also, it's just a knob on the front, though, not a pedal. I can see that being better in some cases, because when you start out, you need it maybe a bit hotter, but as you move along, your part retains heat, and doesn't need to be quite so hot at the other end of the weld. Or, I could just be moving too slow.



--sarge

[JPmotorsports]

I meant it's infinitely controlable while your welding, during each bead---the advantage would be changing mid weld rather than stopping adjusting the machine and then starting again...just depress/let go of the pedal with the tig...I still prefer mig myself as well!

[white-lightning]

From my experience welding, with mild steel mig is fine. If you weld chromoly it is better to tig because tig minimizes the heat affected zone. When the chromoly gets hot and cools it gets harder. So more heat will make it harder and more likely to crack.

[JPmotorsports]

Busy day---we got two boxster specs in for cages and what not---but we kick those things out like pizza so it wont effect the Rolex car...

We did get the a-pillars/roof spreader and a roof diagonal fit in the car though---hopefully more pics/progress tomorrow.

[ajax]

I can't say too much about welding, I've miged, I've tiged. Mig is definitely easier because it's kind of like a glue gun. One of the things that people have cautioned me about is that you can make mig welds that look good but won't hold while with tig, generally, if it looks good, it is good.

I do happen to know a thing or two about carbon fiber.

Vacuum bag is an easy way to do low volume composite parts (kevlar, CF, fiberglass, whatever you want). Usually a pre-impregnated cloth is used where it's essentially a carbon fiber ply that already has the resin in it, or you can apply the resin to it. Let's face it, the resin is only glue and behaves as such so applying it with a paint brush is no big deal. The required number of plies are applied, the vacuum bag is sealed, vacuum applied, resin cured and everyone is happy.

Higher volume parts, like those coming from the auto industry use a similar vacuum method but a much different approach. The cloth plies are applied dry to the mold up to the required quantity, vacuum is applied, then they vacuum the resin through the mold. This is a good way of making very consistent reliable parts, it's also more expensive because tooling costs are much more but less resin is used and it doesn't make as big of a mess.

[Mazda_Powered]

you da man (i think thats how they say it?)

[bomdoutscort]

3 escorts, 2 boxters and a F430. Thats a money shot.

[JPmotorsports]

3 escorts, 2 boxters and a F430. Thats a money shot.

That's funny!!

[1992tracerlts]

I wonder what those boxter owners think when they drop their cars off and there are 3 sub compact escorts in the shop lol.

[JPmotorsports]

I wonder what those boxter owners think when they drop their cars off and there are 3 sub compact escorts in the shop lol.

They think to themselves "Oh---that's the guy that passed me on the outside of turn 9!!!"